Lest we forget

**Dodge** · 21/11/2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Soldiers themselves may enter their occuipation understanding there is a risk they will die or get injured, but they also do so expecting that government will not put them at risk unnecessarily

Surely the actions of governments the world over would indicate that nearly every war is avoidable. So if you join the army, you must have a fair indication that you will be put in a warzone.

**dcfcsteve** · 21/11/2007, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Surely the actions of governments the world over would indicate that nearly every war is avoidable. So if you join the army, you must have a fair indication that you will be put in a warzone.

Every war is arguably avoidable - but that doesn't mean that each side had an equal say in getting involved.

Japan was the instigator behind the Sino-Japanese war of 1937-1945 fro example. It was Jaopan's choice to start that war. China had the choice of dedfending itself, or of being over-run by thr Japanese who coveted their resources and land. That was therefore a political war caused by the Japanese and forced upon the Chinese. You can't fault the Chiense government for choosing to defend its people and territory from naked aggression, and therefore their decision to go to war. You can, however, fault Imperial Japan for yet again starting a war unecessarily.

Likeiwse - the US and Britain must carry the blame for the invasion of Iraq. It was conducted for political pruposes under false pretenses, they'd been warned in advance that their ostensible grounds were unfounded and that they'd only make things worse, and the turn of events has shown all that to be the case. You can blame Sada Hussein for many things, but sending his troops to fight the invasion is not one of them.

So whilst death and ionjury is an occupational hazard that soldiers accept may befall them, the covenant with governments that soldiers have is that they won't be placed in such danger unnecessarily. Starting wars for narrow political reasons is an example of that covennat being broken. Defending your nation from attack is not. So whilst every war is avoidable for the aggressor(s), it is not for those who are the subject of that aggression.

**dortie** · 22/11/2007, 10:13 PM

Found it slightly ironic although not surprising to see a photograph of an ex mayor of Derry (SDLP) at a rememberance Sunday event at the war memorial, funny i never seen her attend any easter commemorations to honour Irelands dead, not even the 'official free state' events that honour those of 1916 etc.

**micls** · 22/11/2007, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by dortie

Found it slightly ironic although not surprising to see a photograph of an ex mayor of Derry (SDLP) at a rememberance Sunday event at the war memorial, funny i never seen her attend any easter commemorations to honour Irelands dead, not even the 'official free state' events that honour those of 1916 etc.

WAR IS UNAVOIDABLE, ITS HUMAN NATURE, AND NO OTHER REASON, EACH OF US IN EVERY COUNTRY DO IT COS WE WANT 2 HON. NO OTHER REASON.

**Blanchflower** · 05/12/2007, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The only conflict Britain has been involved in for the last 100+ years that held any vague threat of Britain being attacked was WW2, and that threat was never clear and never transpired.

You've never heard of the Battle of Britain?

**dcfcsteve** · 09/12/2007, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

You've never heard of the Battle of Britain?

By attack, I meant a serious effort to invade/occupy the country.

The BoB may well have been a pre-cursor to such a land-sea assault, but one never transpired.

**sligobhoy67** · 09/12/2007, 3:39 PM

I always thought that the Poppy Appeal and Rememberance Sunday was in rememberance of those who died in all conflicts that the British were involved in.

So in essence you would be page homage to the Black and Tans, the Parachute regiment etc.

Not something I would particularly care to do if I am being really honest.

**micls** · 09/12/2007, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by micls

WAR IS UNAVOIDABLE, ITS HUMAN NATURE, AND NO OTHER REASON, EACH OF US IN EVERY COUNTRY DO IT COS WE WANT 2 HON. NO OTHER REASON.

What the hell? I didn't post this

**Lionel Ritchie** · 09/12/2007, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by sligobhoy67

I always thought that the Poppy Appeal and Rememberance Sunday was in rememberance of those who died in all conflicts that the British were involved in.

So in essence you would be page homage to the Black and Tans, the Parachute regiment etc.

Not something I would particularly care to do if I am being really honest.

That sort of one-size-fits-all logic is defective. For example -If, like myself, you're from a Catholic background you'll be familiar with "all souls day/feast of all souls" (it's either Nov 1st or 2nd). Now if we're to assume Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot and any other despot who's passed off this mortal coil had a soul ...well then, by your defective logic you shouldn't pray for ANY souls on all souls day for fear some of the goodies make their way into the wrong hands no?

All Saints day becomes a serious no-no. Some of the Saints were right bast@rds. St. Christopher hacked his parents up in a jealous rage as they lay in bed in the spare room. Apparently he thought it was his wife playing an away match...

**Lim till i die** · 09/12/2007, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by micls

What the hell? I didn't post this

Must have been your shouty, ill-educated twin

**dcfcsteve** · 10/12/2007, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by sligobhoy67

I always thought that the Poppy Appeal and Rememberance Sunday was in rememberance of those who died in all conflicts that the British were involved in.

So in essence you would be page homage to the Black and Tans, the Parachute regiment etc.

Not something I would particularly care to do if I am being really honest.

More Irish people died in the service of the British army in the space of 60secs in many WW1 battles, than British soldiers ever died in Ireland, so if that's your main objection then your logic is valid but confused.

**bennocelt** · 11/12/2007, 7:56 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

More Irish people died in the service of the British army in the space of 60secs in many WW1 battles, than British soldiers ever died in Ireland, so if that's your main objection then your logic is valid but confused.

Yeah but as an irish man you are hardly going to wear a poppy, are you? but knowing your posts you probably do!!

the irish were very good at fighting other peoples wars

**Blanchflower** · 11/12/2007, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

More Irish people died in the service of the British army in the space of 60secs in many WW1 battles, than British soldiers ever died in Ireland, so if that's your main objection then your logic is valid but confused.

Good point - he's looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

**dcfcsteve** · 11/12/2007, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Yeah but as an irish man you are hardly going to wear a poppy, are you? but knowing your posts you probably do!!

I have never worn a poppy, but would be delighted for you to show me these posts that suggest I would ?

I suspect you may be some time.....

Originally Posted by bennocelt

the irish were very good at fighting other peoples wars

And at happily pocketing the Queen's shilling in return. It's not just about "fighting other people's war" - as if their responsibility is somehow abdicated, just because Ireland didn't start the war...

**GavinZac** · 17/12/2007, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by micls

What the hell? I didn't post this

"hon"? sounds like your mom saw you logged in and had a go

**bennocelt** · 23/12/2007, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I have never worn a poppy, but would be delighted for you to show me these posts that suggest I would ?

And at happily pocketing the Queen's shilling in return. It's not just about "fighting other people's war" - as if their responsibility is somehow abdicated, just because Ireland didn't start the war...

that kind of proves my point!

**CollegeTillIDie** · 27/12/2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And at happily pocketing the Queen's shilling in return. It's not just about "fighting other people's war" - as if their responsibility is somehow abdicated, just because Ireland didn't start the war...

While not arguing with the broad thrust of your earlier points in this post I feel it's only right to point out two things 1) The Irish economy was down the toilet under British rule, sometimes taking the Queen's shilling was the only way to feed the family 2) Ireland was not a sovereign state before 1921, therefore any wars fought by Irish soldiers were not fought on behalf of the Irish nation and therefore we have a spotless record as a State of not having started any sort of a belligerent War since our independence. We fought an economic war with the English in the 1930's but nobody was shot during it by either side.

**Mr_Parker** · 28/12/2007, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

That sort of one-size-fits-all logic is defective. For example -If, like myself, you're from a Catholic background you'll be familiar with "all souls day/feast of all souls" (it's either Nov 1st or 2nd). Now if we're to assume Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot and any other despot who's passed off this mortal coil had a soul ...well then, by your defective logic you shouldn't pray for ANY souls on all souls day for fear some of the goodies make their way into the wrong hands no?

All Saints day becomes a serious no-no. Some of the Saints were right bast@rds. St. Christopher hacked his parents up in a jealous rage as they lay in bed in the spare room. Apparently he thought it was his wife playing an away match...

Apart from the fact the Catholic religion teaches that you should pray for the sinners too ie "All souls," it is not comparable in regards to the British Legion Poppy Appeal. Monies rasied from this are used for all strands of army personnel including those contentious ones already mentioned.

**rebelarmyexile** · 08/01/2008, 1:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Apart from the fact the Catholic religion teaches that you should pray for the sinners too ie "All souls," it is not comparable in regards to the British Legion Poppy Appeal. Monies rasied from this are used for all strands of army personnel including those contentious ones already mentioned.

As a point of information all monies raised by the Republic of Ireland Branch of the Legion stay within the Republic's Branch and go directly to help veterans and their families residing in the Republic. Likewise for the Northern Ireland Branch, English, Scottish & Commonwealth.

Therefore, if one buys a poppy on Grafton Street or Patrick Street in Cork they can be assured the money stays in the Republic so safe from so-called 'contentious' recipients.

**holidaysong** · 08/01/2008, 7:53 AM

Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

As a point of information all monies raised by the Republic of Ireland Branch of the Legion stay within the Republic's Branch and go directly to help veterans and their families residing in the Republic. Likewise for the Northern Ireland Branch, English, Scottish & Commonwealth.

Therefore, if one buys a poppy on Grafton Street or Patrick Street in Cork they can be assured the money stays in the Republic so safe from so-called 'contentious' recipients.

I have never seen poppies for sale in the Republic of Ireland, does it happen?