Eligibility proposal

[RogerMilla]

They probably would want to play for us if they didn't have the option of playing for the South.

NI players would play for us if there was a situation like there is in rugby , but there isn't. It looks the cutting off of the option to play for "the south" isn't going to come about either.

[EalingGreen]

Why do NI want players that dont want to play for them, anyway?

Not every NI-born footballer from a Nationalist background* is a "dyed-in-the-wool" Nationalist, for whom the choice of international team is "the Republic or no-one".

Many will have no great political leanings either way i.e. like most young kids, they just want to play football. Therefore, if offered a choice, some who might otherwise have been perfectly happy if presented with the "Hobson's Choice" of NI (only), will now be tempted to choose ROI.

Moreover, in making such a choice, the factors which most influence them might not even be footballing ones, never mind political ones, although some deluded individuals like Alex Bruce might choose ROI because it is the "better" team , or might be easier to get a cap (well first cap, at least, even though once tied, they might not get too many more**). Some might choose ROI for financial reasons/inducements. Some might be influenced by 3rd parties (Family, Agents, Politicians, "Community Representatives" etc). Some have even swayed towards ROI due to personality clashes, or arguments with individuals in the IFA***

In common with most fans, I have always felt that playing for ones country should be an honour, not some mercenary or expedient perk of being a club footballer. Then again, as an ROI fan, you'll probably be even more acutely conscious of that than me, what with all the Plastics who've used the ROI down the years...


* - Strange that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson for instance, deigned to represent NI when he was younger...

** - I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap...

*** - Didn't I read somewhere that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson first opted for ROI after he fell out with an IFA Coach who wanted to deny him the chance to travel to Manchester for a trial, since it clashed with an NI game for which he was also selected?

[ifk101]

NI players would play for us if there was a situation like there is in rugby, but there isn't.

It's already been stated in this thread that ultimately the majority of professional sportsmen and sportswomen will think with their heads rather than their hearts.

[Supreme feet]

I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap

Darron Gibson has two caps already. And if he keeps on developing, he'll win many more, especially given Carsley's age and our current dearth of central midfielders.

[lopez]

...Many will have no great political leanings either way i.e. like most young kids, they just want to play football. Therefore, if offered a choice, some who might otherwise have been perfectly happy if presented with the "Hobson's Choice" of NI (only), will now be tempted to choose ROI.... Then again, as an ROI fan, you'll probably be even more acutely conscious of that than me, what with all the Plastics who've used the ROI down the years...

Is this really news to anyone? How many Arsenal fans have played for Spurs or vice verse, or Basques or Catalans that have played for Real Madrid? You're even trying to score points here by bringing up 'plastics'. Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team.

[ifk101]

In common with most fans, I have always felt that playing for ones country should be an honour, not some mercenary or expedient perk of being a club footballer. Then again, as an ROI fan, you'll probably be even more acutely conscious of that than me, what with all the Plastics who've used the ROI down the years...

Silly comment and lazy attempt at a dig. Is Maik Taylor not the clearest example of a mercenary in today's game?

Time to move on - we've gone down this route already.

[RogerMilla]

Not every NI-born footballer from a Nationalist background* is a "dyed-in-the-wool" Nationalist, for whom the choice of international team is "the Republic or no-one".

Many will have no great political leanings either way i.e. like most young kids, they just want to play football. Therefore, if offered a choice, some who might otherwise have been perfectly happy if presented with the "Hobson's Choice" of NI (only), will now be tempted to choose ROI.

Moreover, in making such a choice, the factors which most influence them might not even be footballing ones, never mind political ones, although some deluded individuals like Alex Bruce might choose ROI because it is the "better" team , or might be easier to get a cap (well first cap, at least, even though once tied, they might not get too many more**). Some might choose ROI for financial reasons/inducements. Some might be influenced by 3rd parties (Family, Agents, Politicians, "Community Representatives" etc). Some have even swayed towards ROI due to personality clashes, or arguments with individuals in the IFA***

In common with most fans, I have always felt that playing for ones country should be an honour, not some mercenary or expedient perk of being a club footballer. Then again, as an ROI fan, you'll probably be even more acutely conscious of that than me, what with all the Plastics who've used the ROI down the years...


* - Strange that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson for instance, deigned to represent NI when he was younger...

** - I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap...

*** - Didn't I read somewhere that, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson first opted for ROI after he fell out with an IFA Coach who wanted to deny him the chance to travel to Manchester for a trial, since it clashed with an NI game for which he was also selected?

Thanks for taking such a didactic line while nonetheless not offering me one single shred of new information.

Next week EG on not every NI-born footballer is right footed and some prefer to dunk their rich teas.

Enough with the patronising please.

[Gather round]

Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team

I watched the game in Cardiff with Lopez and chums from the RoI London supporters club. As he suggests, a mix of accents from all four corners, as well as the bloke behind me who snored contentedly through the second half

Ps Lope, I have that bufanda espanola for you, and look forward to presenting at a future meeting of your club.

[co. down green]

I wonder how long, ahem, Darron ("Ireland or Nothing") Gibson might have to wait before his second cap...

He's Likely to have many more international caps and with Wolves determined to keep him for the rest of the season, he's picking up valuable experience, especially on the right wing.

He'll be a great role model for kids all over the North, in years to come

[Stuttgart88]

He's Likely to have many more international caps and with Wolves determined to keep him for the rest of the season, he's picking up valuable experience, especially on the right wing.

He'll be a great role model for kids all over the North, in years to come

The guy who plays central mid for Wolves will be on African Nations Cup duty and Gibson has said he hopes to play CM in his absence.

[Gather round]

Let's be realistic here. Any Irish footballer who's a regular in a leading English D2 team is likely to be in an international squad.

[co. down green]

The guy who plays central mid for Wolves will be on African Nations Cup duty and Gibson has said he hopes to play CM in his absence.

He's a confident lad and is keen to fill the central role being left by Seyi Olofinjana over the holiday period & January.

"hopefully I’ll get a chance to move inside and do a job in there, at the moment I don’t mind playing on the right of midfield because I think it’s adding a lot to my game, I’m getting in a lot of different positions and being able to play elsewhere can only help me when I go back to United.”

[Blanchflower]

NI players would play for us if there was a situation like there is in rugby , but there isn't.

What do you mean play for "us"? In rugby, there is an all-Ireland team: it's not a case of NI players playing for the Republic!

[EalingGreen]

Is this really news to anyone?

It might be news to GavinZac, who asked the question:
"Why do NI want players that dont want to play for them, anyway?"
I was merely answering directly that it is not those youngsters who don't want to play for NI at any price (a v.small minority, imo) who concern us, rather those who might be persuaded either way.

How many Arsenal fans have played for Spurs or vice verse, or Basques or Catalans that have played for Real Madrid?

Nice of you to prove my point, even if unintentionally. Arsenal, Spurs and Real Madrid are professional clubs, who offer players a career. Whereas international football should be about more than just a pay packet.

You're even trying to score points here by bringing up 'plastics'. Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team.

I've only been to watch ROI play away a couple of times and not recently, but I am well aware of the differing affiliations of their fans. But once again, I make a distinction between fans and players when it comes to motives. Fans are just people who choose to follow a particular team and don't need to justify it to anyone. Whereas you can't normally "choose" your country as a player, therefore it's about honour and pride etc. Such pride normally derives from having been born in the country in question but obviously not exclusively so, since countries may sometimes choose players born elsewhere. As such, it may sometimes be the case that these non "native-born" players might have other motives aside from the usual, especially where they are dually or even multiply qualified. As a country which has picked a higher proportion of such players in the past than most, the ROI is/was always more liable to suffer being "used" by mercenaries than others (though at least you didn't have to suffer Vinny Jones!)
Call that "points scoring", if you like.

[EalingGreen]

Silly comment and lazy attempt at a dig. Is Maik Taylor not the clearest example of a mercenary in today's game?

Time to move on - we've gone down this route already.

Certainly time to move on from (the perennially cited) Maik Taylor, since new arrangements mean any new Taylor would not be eligible for NI. Though it is ironic that there is clearly no prouder player in the NI team than Big Maik, who e.g. always turns up for NI, whether in squad, bench or 1st XI, on form or off, fit or carrying an injury, unlike Fermanagh born-and-bred Roy Carroll, for example!

Besides, our Big Maik is "cancelled out" by your Alan Kernaghan when it comes to picking players of dubious provenance...

[EalingGreen]

Thanks for taking such a didactic line while nonetheless not offering me one single shred of new information.

Next week EG on not every NI-born footballer is right footed and some prefer to dunk their rich teas.

Enough with the patronising please.

It may not have been news to you, but it wasn't aimed at you. It was a direct reply to Gavin Zac, whose question indicated he wasn't seeing the whole picture. If that's not too patronising a comment by me...

[GavinZac]

It may not have been news to you, but it wasn't aimed at you. It was a direct reply to Gavin Zac, whose question indicated he wasn't seeing the whole picture. If that's not too patronising a comment by me...

I'm quite aware of the concept of players picking and choosing which country to play for. However, frankly if a player came through the ranks of the irish set up and decided at the last minute that playing for england suited him better, I certainly wouldnt be too worried; Similarly, the "I'm Irish, innit" element of the national side annoys me. If by some decision it turned out he couldnt play for england and thus was eligible for Ireland again, I wouldnt want him selected. International football should not be win-at-all-costs.

[lopez]

Maybe you should try going to watch 'da Republik' away and see that the English accent isn't confined to the Irish team

I watched the game in Cardiff with Lopez and chums from the RoI London supporters club. As he suggests, a mix of accents from all four corners, as well as the bloke behind me who snored contentedly through the second half

Ps Lope, I have that bufanda espanola for you, and look forward to presenting at a future meeting of your club.

And it was good to see your accent wasn't out of place either. Thanks a lot for the scarf. It will be much appreciated come June.

[B]Nice of you to prove my point, even if unintentionally. Arsenal, Spurs and Real Madrid are professional clubs, who offer players a career. Whereas international football should be about more than just a pay packet.

Should it now? I would have thought for many that the thought of playing for one club they despise may well be more of a decision than playing for the country of their birth or the country of their parents birth. But then you base everything on where yer mammy's waters broke dontcha.

[B]I've only been to watch ROI play away a couple of times and not recently, but I am well aware of the differing affiliations of their fans.

Affiliations? What's that supposed to mean? I don't think, unlike GR, you've been anywhere near an Ireland game home or away.

[B]But once again, I make a distinction between fans and players when it comes to motives. Fans are just people who choose to follow a particular team and don't need to justify it to anyone. Whereas you can't normally "choose" your country as a player, therefore it's about honour and pride etc.

Some fans can actually 'choose', if you think we actually sat sown one day and thought 'hmmm? Ireland have never qualified for a World Cup, I tell you what I'll follow them because I won't have to pay for an expensive trip to Mexico.

[B]Such pride normally derives from having been born in the country in question

Back to Mammy's waters again.

[B]but obviously not exclusively so, since countries may sometimes choose players born elsewhere. As such, it may sometimes be the case that these non "native-born" players might have other motives aside from the usual, especially where they are dually or even multiply qualified. As a country which has picked a higher proportion of such players in the past than most, the ROI is/was always more liable to suffer being "used" by mercenaries than others (though at least you didn't have to suffer Vinny Jones!)
Call that "points scoring", if you like.

I'd call it b*llocks!

[kingdomkerry]

Everyone who wants to play for Ireland can if they want, Players who want to play with the northern team (some would say sectarian team) can if they want. All players are happy, its all about the players at the end of the day.

Im sick of the sour grapes

[osarusan]

Everyone who wants to play for Ireland can if they want, Players who want to play with the northern team (some would say sectarian team) can if they want. All players are happy, its all about the players at the end of the day.

Im sick of the sour grapes

Well done. Very subtle.