Yes, you could be right, although it wouldn't be as a result of the Qatar situation, but as a result of the "Qatar criteria" being applied to situations concerning a player whose nationality entitled him to play for more than one team.Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Hardly, given that the gentlemen's agreement was that NI players weren't eligible for ROI!
My God that first comment is pedantic. I didn't feel the need to spell it out, I would've thought that was obvious!
I'm saying the gentleman's agreement wasn't being adhered to for years at underage level before the current situation, since at least the early to mid 90's.
As as been repeated ad nauseum, Gibson himself is not the issue; rather it is a principle which is at stake here. Gibson's case merely brought the issue greater urgency, since he was the first in line (Alex Bruce excepted?) for a senior cap which would tie him to the ROI/exclude him from NI.Probably because they feel that this particular lad has the potential to be a lot better than the rest of these lads and worried that more like this may slip through the net.
[Besides, Gibson may be better than some of the others who we consider may have been selected improperly by the FAI; that's not the same as saying he's better than the players who remain loyal to the IFA. In fact, on current form, Gibson would be 5th or 6th on the list of candidates vying for the two NI central midfield berths. At best. Indeed, I daresay he wouldn't have been much higher up the ROI pecking order, had you had a manager who knew his arse from a hole in the ground!]
No, but you are our problem! (FAI, that is, not you personally)
It's obvious to me (and apparently to you), but not to many others.
I see what you're saying now.
I think FIFA is more your problem, the FAI are simply following the rules as advised to them on numerous accasions by FIFA.
True, but it wasn't such a problem, either, since the players involved were almost all U-21 and representing the ROI's under-age teams. Therefore, if they did look as though they might have been good enough* to represent us at senior level, we still had some hope of getting them back, as with Tony Kane and Martin O'Connor.
Gibson was different, because Staunton was looking to cap him for your seniour team, meaning he would be lost to us permanently.
Anyhow, what you must remember is that the IFA in the 80's and 90's was so incompetent and badly administered it made the FAI look like Microsoft! That is, there were so many other things going wrong that a few teenagers from Derry playing under-age tournaments in Cork or Cairo (or wherever) never even made their radar. Had the IFA had any radar. Or even electricity to power it.
I'm aware of that, it was a partly tongue in cheek remark. Hence the wink at the end.
Besides, it is abundantly clear that Staunton was capping him merely to stick his fingers up at the IFA (something which I wasn't happy with) as Gibson was clearly completely the wrong player to bring on in that game from a tactical point of view.
Last edited by jmurphyc; 23/11/2007 at 2:07 PM. Reason: Added 2nd paragraph
The IFA, after identifying what they consider to be an inconsistency between FIFA's Rules on eligibility and the Principles* behind those Rules, have now tossed the problem to FIFA.
And FIFA, despite their having the (unchallenged) authority to make a quick and clear determination that the present Rules must stand in this case, have declined to do so, suggesting instead a "compromise", which appears designed to avoid having to make a determination.
And assuming the IFA rejects this "compromise" (which I'm sure they will), the problem will revert back to FIFA.
And in the meantime, theFAI will continue to instruct its managers not to select NI-born players who cannot also demonstrate a parent/grandparent/residential connection to the FAI, which is a problem, of sorts, for you.
(* - I.e. you play for the Association within whose jurisdiction you were born, unless you can establish a legitimate footballing connection with another Association)
So of they played for Derry City they'd be OK
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
True, but it wasn't such a problem, either, since the players involved were almost all U-21 and representing the ROI's under-age teams. Therefore, if they did look as though they might have been good enough* to represent us at senior level, we still had some hope of getting them back, as with Tony Kane and Martin O'Connor.
Gibson was different, because Staunton was looking to cap him for your seniour team, meaning he would be lost to us permanently.
Anyhow, what you must remember is that the IFA in the 80's and 90's was so incompetent and badly administered it made the FAI look like Microsoft! That is, there were so many other things going wrong that a few teenagers from Derry playing under-age tournaments in Cork or Cairo (or wherever) never even made their radar. Had the IFA had any radar. Or even electricity to power it.
True but it's also that fact that the IFA could do nothing about it as at that time there was no confusion as to FIFA's position (ie) if you held a passport for a country you were entitled to play for that country. The IFA might have been the best run organisation at that stage but they couldn't have done anything. Teh reason they tried now was because they thought since the Qatar criteria was introduced they may have a case.
There was at least one 6c player playing in thr Under 20 Woprld Cup we came 3rd in in 1997 ** who great things were expected of and there was no fuss made over him. He didn't make it beyond and wound up playing in the eircom league (with Galway?) mind you but he was well thought of at the time. Someone tell me his name please, it's on the tip of my tounge and it's doing my head in that I can't remember it!
** May actually be thinking of Ger Crossley here who was with the Under 18 Euro Champions rather then the U 20 WC team.
Last edited by Drumcondra 69er; 23/11/2007 at 2:56 PM.
No, FIFA had advised that the status quo remains the same for the time being and we are entitled to select anyone born on the island.
Hardly! Players may move back and forth between different clubs in different countries, but that doesn't mean they may change their international eligibility at the same time.
Besides, if you want to use that criterion, it doesn't help you much with Gibson, since he was developed not by Derry City, but by Institute FC, via the NISFA and the (IFA's) NI U-16 team, before he ever elected to represent the FAI.
Which is another reason why the IFA is angered by this whole situation (even if it doesn't directly affect his eligibility or otherwise under the Rules)
That's not as was reported in papers etc on both sides of the border. Nor would it explain why Kane and O'Connor reverted to NI, or why Ruari Higgins was "de-selected" from the ROI U-23 squad.
I think you'll find the status quo ante only obtains for those players such as Gibson, who had represented the ROI before the (Qatar/Brazil) Annex was introduced.
Kane and O'Connor reverted before the last FIFA pronouncment and ditto for Higgins. It was certainly reported over here that the FAI were free to pick players from all 32 counties following that. That doesn't follow that it's correct but it was definitely reported.
Hardly! Players may move back and forth between different clubs in different countries, but that doesn't mean they may change their international eligibility at the same time.
Besides, if you want to use that criterion, it doesn't help you much with Gibson, since he was developed not by Derry City, but by Institute FC, blah blah blah
Firstly, it's your criterion - Derry City play under the aegis of the FAI (jurisdiction and whatnot). Secondly, even I, though I hold no license in law, nor any other parasitical profession, though I've been called to the bar, can see that this and the other Irish 'footballing' (as you so pertinently put it) anomalies - like the specific case of Irish dual citizenship and nationality, say - are enough to have the FIFA big-wig-wigs trembling in their wigs and collars and shouting: let it stand. Or enough.
This thread and its useless, coninical repetaitions are mostly boring but on occasion enraging. Just out of curiousity, Ealing, what precisely are you insinuating when you [jocularly, no doubt] refer (not here, one would hope you'd be banned) to the Republic as 'beggars', or 'tarmaccers'? Despite your eloquences, you're a hypocrite - and (if you consider the [Catholic - I presume] Irish and Irish travellers another race) a repulsively bigotted, sectarian & racist hypocrite to boot.
The fact that Derry City play in the Eircom is utterly irrelevant to the question of player eligibility. You don't need a lawyer to confirm this, just anyone with greater understanding of such matters than a goldfish. Or eel.
Try Slugger O'Toole - they've always room for one more Mope.
Why not? Does that mean English people cant be 100% British and 100% English. Is it 50/50?
The argument is, I think, that as England is a region of Britain, is is possible to be both 100% English and British, as the two are not mutually exclusive (as it is possible to be both 100% Corkonian and Irish).
But is it possible to be 100% of two entirely different countries, which Ireland and Britain are?
Personally, I don't give a crap, and what it has to do with eligibility criteria I don't know.
This thread should be locked until FIFA/UEFA make their decision.
But is NI not a region of Britain(UK) in the same way England is. And NI is on the island of Ireland therefore he is both 100% and 'UKish'.
Il agree with you there
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