Eligibility proposal

[Dodge]

Does that mean there is no poster called Bunreacht?

half kidding...

[antrimgreen]

Apologies, oversight not deliberate. My nationality (including for border crossing purposes) is British. If the card says UK I delete it, being a lifelong
republican.
.

A life long republican that says his nationality is British, something seriously f**ked up there Gather round. Gather round and listen to this there are no Irish born true republicans that would call themselves British

[Drumcondra 69er]

A life long republican that says his nationality is British, something seriously f**ked up there Gather round. Gather round and listen to this there are no Irish born true republicans that would call themselves British

I reckon he means he'd like to see a Republic of Britain as opposed to a monrachy. Quite how Scotland and Wales would view this I don't know given that it's the kingdom that unites britain at present.

Then again, maybe that's not what he meant.

[jmurphyc]

And 100% NI. Is this mathematically possible? Surely 33.333333333333333% each?

What about the other 0.0000000000000001%?

[Gather round]

I reckon he means he'd like to see a Republic of Britain as opposed to a monrachy

Indeed.

Quite how Scotland and Wales would view this I don't know

Well, if they split then it's no longer my business, I suppose. Although I'd prefer that Salmond (SNP leader) wasn't so pally with Liz Windsor

given that it's the kingdom that unites britain at present

I don't think loyalty to Liz and family is the main reason for clear majorities of voters in Abertawe and Aberdeen opposing independence.

Gather round and listen to this there are no Irish born true republicans that would call themselves British

You'll have to take my word for it, Einstein

[kingdomkerry]

In all fairness you cant be 100% Irish and 100% British. Maybe 50:50 or 60:40. Same as players cant put in 200% on the pitch. Although Roy Keane came close!

[Gather round]

In all fairness you cant be 100% Irish and 100% British

You can and I am. It's perfectly simple.

Maybe 50:50 or 60:40

No. As I've explained, one doesn't contradict the other.

Same as players cant put in 200% on the pitch

I'm not claiming to be 200% of anything.

[kingdomkerry]

W

In all fairness you cant be 100% Irish and 100% British

You can and I am. It's perfectly simple.

Maybe 50:50 or 60:40

No. As I've explained, one doesn't contradict the other.

Same as players cant put in 200% on the pitch

I'm not claiming to be 200% of anything.

Question: 100 + 100 =

(a) 100
(b) 200
(c) 677
(d) both (a) and (c)

If you need to phone a friend give me a buzz im good at sums

[micls]

In all fairness you cant be 100% Irish and 100% British. Maybe 50:50 or 60:40. Same as players cant put in 200% on the pitch. Although Roy Keane came close!

Can you be 100% from Europe and 100% Irish?

I know its a bit different but the point is being Irish and British dont necessarily have to contradict each other(unless your being pedantic and saying NI isnt actually in Britain-we'l say UKish).

He is 100% Irish as he lives and was born on the island of Ireland, similarly I am 100% Irish as I was born and raised here. Also I am 100% European as my country is part of Europe....

[micls]

W

Question: 100 + 100 =

(a) 100
(b) 200
(c) 677
(d) both (a) and (c)

If you need to phone a friend give me a buzz im good at sums

Wow talk about simplifuying it far too much. In that case I cant be a 100 % Corkonion and 100% Irish cos 100 and 100=200

[kingdomkerry]

im 100% an Irishman and 100% a Kerryman, well maybe 90% cause i was born in Cork (the shame). Ones my county and ones my country. Come to think of it im 100% European too. Its a continent.

Point here is you cant be 100% related to one country (Ireland) and 100% related to another country (Britain).

[Stuttgart88]

Can you be 100% from Europe and 100% Irish?

I know its a bit different but the point is being Irish and British dont necessarily have to contradict each other(unless your being pedantic and saying NI isnt actually in Britain-we'l say UKish).

He is 100% Irish as he lives and was born on the island of Ireland, similarly I am 100% Irish as I was born and raised here. Also I am 100% European as my country is part of Europe....

Remember those Venn diagrams we did in junior school? They could come in useful here.

[Blanchflower]

I still consider that you jumped the gun, reacting what you thought was being alluded to. In the context of what was being debated, Jayneymac's questions were fair game, they were cultural not political and was missing just one word to make that crystal clear.

"Here is a question that might help (me)to figure out how 'Irish' you are?"
in the post
http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=819133&postcount=657

I still don't see that the inclusion of that additional word makes any difference, nor whether she is using political or cultural criteria (even if those two can be completely disentangled, which I'm not sure that they necessarily can). Janeymac is still using political/cultural criteria to work out where to place someone on a scale of Irishness. I object to that. And I don't see how it is "cheap and nasty" for me to object to it - on the contrary, surely using criteria to place someone on a scale of Irishness is "cheap and nasty".

[Drumcondra 69er]

I still don't see that the inclusion of that additional word makes any difference, nor whether she is using political or cultural criteria (even if those two can be completely disentangled, which I'm not sure that they necessarily can). Janeymac is still using political/cultural criteria to work out where to place someone on a scale of Irishness. I object to that. And I don't see how it is "cheap and nasty" for me to object to it - on the contrary, surely using criteria to place someone on a scale of Irishness is "cheap and nasty".

Well that's your problem so, you by your own admission can't differenciate between policits and culture.

Best to agree to differ on it rather then go round in circles.

[Blanchflower]

You're lying again! You brought up the 'identity crisis' (post # 538) remark in response to someone saying that they knew 2G and 3G people born in England who consider themselves Irish.

I wasn't lying because I believed that someone else used the phrase first: I was apparently mistaken, but certainly not lying. And I wasn't lying again because I have not lied previously therefore it would not be possible for me to have lied again.

I think we should look at the identity crisis you clearly have then, if you are going to start insulting us.

I have no intention of insulting you, and I have no identity crisis, therefore the above makes no sense.

This is exactly what you stated in (post # 538). To remind you: 'I find it strange that someone with 3 English grandparents and 1 Irish grandparent would consider himself "100% Irish" and have no affinity with Britain. Such a person must be very poor at arithmetic or have some kind of identity crisis.'

Unfortunate use of percentages there, which is where the confusion has arisen, but the point being made was that the person in question - as I understood - considered himself Irish to the exclusion of other identities, even though he had 3 British grandparents and only 1 Irish grandparent. Hence, to claim he was 100% Irish but not at all British would seem very strange, and possibly indicate an identity crisis manifesting itself in a denial of his British heritage.

I don't accept you as an authority on who is or who isn't Irish.

Good. I wouldn't expect or want you to. Each person has the right to determine his own identity - neither you nor me has the right to tell someone what he or she is or isn't. Unfortunately on this thread, though, you have been posing as such an authority.

If you are going to hold such views then so will I.

Then you will have to change your views as I believe that each individual may determine his own identity.

You insinuated as much in post #538.

No I didn't. Just because I found it strange that someone with 3 British grandparents and 1 Irish grandparent would declare Irishness to the exclusion of Britishness in no way insinuates that I don't think the person should be entitled to an ROI passport! If he's entitled to one, then he's entitled to one - simple as.

If you are going to add the foreign born children and grandchildren of Ireland in the Irish population, then what about the foreign born children and grandchildren of the English. How did Owen Hargreaves qualify to play for England? How did Zola Budd run for Britain?

There's no way there have been as many foreign-born English footballers than ROI.

I still don't care who you pick.

I know - you already said that. And it still doesn't alter the fact that, in my view, NI shouldn't pick players with no connection to NI, and, therefore, it is not inconsistent for me to have the same opinion about ROI. Therefore your claim that I was being inconsistent was false.

[Blanchflower]

Just don't stop Irish nationalists playing for their country.

I don't have the power to stop anyone playing for any team. But I do have the right to express an opinion on eligibility criteria and I will continue to do so, regardless of the fact that others like yourself might disagree.

It doesn't alter the fact that you picked players with no connection to the territory of the IFA before we did.

I wasn't aware that I had said otherwise.

You've pointed out a lot of things that have been b*locks.

Such as?

Ironically it is known as a British passport even to the people that issue it.

How is that ironic? It is a British passport! And Northern Ireland, part of the UK, is British, and part of Ireland, is Irish. So Ealing's British passport is also an Irish passport, in the sense that it relates to part of Ireland. Just as an ROI passport is an Irish passport. There are two passports for Ireland: a British one for NI and an ROI one (known as an “Irish passport”) for ROI.

I rest my case.

What case?

(BTW, my passport says 'Ireland', not 'Republic of Ireland' )

I know what it says, but in reality it is a ROI passport. The passport is issued by the ROI.

http://www.ukpassportsadvice.com/index4.html
This page is for British citizens and provides information only on British passports, as well as some helpful advice on the application processes.

And?

http://www.britishembassy.ie/textonl...qualifynew.htm
Do I qualify for a British Passport?

I don't know anything about you, so I'm afraid I don't know.

Blanchflower and EG: Please post anything referring to Northern Irish citizenship. I'd be interested in reading it.

NI is part of the UK, so in terms of legal citizenship, our citizenship is that of the UK, i.e. British citizenship. We are, however, in a political or social sense, citizens of NI, just as someone in Scotland is a citizen of Scotland, etc.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Unfortunate use of percentages there, which is where the confusion has arisen, but the point being made was that the person in question - as I understood - considered himself Irish to the exclusion of other identities, even though he had 3 British grandparents and only 1 Irish grandparent. Hence, to claim he was 100% Irish but not at all British would seem very strange, and possibly indicate an identity crisis manifesting itself in a denial of his British heritage.


No I didn't. Just because I found it strange that someone with 3 British grandparents and 1 Irish grandparent would declare Irishness to the exclusion of Britishness in no way insinuates that I don't think the person should be entitled to an ROI passport! If he's entitled to one, then he's entitled to one - simple as.

That's obviously a misunderstanding so, it was me who brought up people I know who are 2nd and 3rd generation Irish and don't consider themselves British, I never said that they only had a single grandparent, that was your assumption. The people in question would have Irish parents or second generation Irish parents born and raised in England within the Irish communities in London, Birmingham etc . I also have a very good firend born in England to 2 Irish parents who moved back over here nearly 20 years ago at 14 but still identifies with an Irish but also an English identity having been born there. That's his perogative.

[paul_oshea]

most of my mates over here are plastics, even if some of them only have 1 parent or even grandparent. Funny things is though, I dont htink they actually fully know what it means to be Irish. Anyhow, it reminds me of an ex when she was asked where she was from and she used to reply "Irish Sea". Summed it up for me really. Also reminds me of when my uncle met her in Ireland and he says " we spent 800 years getting them out, and in 2 years you start bringing them back". Most people in Ireland wouldn't understand the idea that someone born in England could see themselves as Irish.

[antrimgreen]

Speak for yourself Blanch, i am a legal citzen of Ireland, work it up your bangle, i have a passport to prove it, 1 passport 1 nationality, none of this crap, half british half Irish a bit UK also a British republican like the Scottish, Jesus christ you have covered all bases haven't you.

[Blanchflower]

I reckon he means he'd like to see a Republic of Britain as opposed to a monrachy. Quite how Scotland and Wales would view this I don't know given that it's the kingdom that unites britain at present.

If the UK became a republic, it would simply become the UR. Such a decision could only be made by the Parliament of the UK and would affect the whole of the UK/UR.

If Scotland and Wales felt differently, they would need to declare independence and proclaim the Queen as their head of state.