Eligibility proposal

[paul_oshea]

Just less intelligent than me.

You just got lucky with your FIFA proposal

Thanks. "I" might I add too Don't let the side down - especially when using the word intelligent in the same sentence

[elroy]

The Ulster Unionist Party is offering to support a possible challenge to the FIFA ruling that footballers born in the North can play for the Republic if they choose.

The party's deputy leader, Danny Kennedy, has written to the Irish Football Association seeking a meeting to discuss the matter.

He has offered any support the UUP can provide if the IFA decides to challenge the ruling, which still has to be ratified by the FIFA executive.

Mr Kennedy says the decision is a recipe for confusion and would damage the quality of the Northern Ireland football team.

[lopez]

Yet again, you continue to misrepresent my views.

Please put up - by highlighting where I have stated that I don't want those who don't want to play for Northern Ireland playing anywhere else - or, shut up.

So you are supporting the right of any player from the 6C to play for (the Republic of) Ireland, providing he has an Irish passport, hasn't played an 'A' international for NI, or anything else that debars him?

[Not Brazil]

So you are supporting the right of any player from the 6C to play for (the Republic of) Ireland, providing he has an Irish passport, hasn't played an 'A' international for NI, or anything else that debars him?

As I have always stated, if an eligible player doesn't want to play for Northern Ireland, my interest in him ends.

He can do whatever he wants after that, within FIFA rules. I couldn't give two flying ones.

Now - in future, please desist from misrepresenting my views please.

[lopez]

The Ulster Unionist Party is offering to support a possible challenge to the FIFA ruling that footballers born in the North can play for the Republic if they choose.

The party's deputy leader, Danny Kennedy, has written to the Irish Football Association seeking a meeting to discuss the matter.

He has offered any support the UUP can provide if the IFA decides to challenge the ruling, which still has to be ratified by the FIFA executive.

Mr Kennedy says the decision is a recipe for confusion and would damage the quality of the Northern Ireland football team.

EG better get onto the IFA about this and start pointing out that 'politcal interference' might get the NI thrown out of the World Cup qualifiers. Then again, is the UUP still in existence?

[EalingGreen]

During this whole discussion on the Darron Gibson thread and this thread
Ealing Green has demonstrated a consistent capacity to get it wrong on every major related issue to do with FIFA

Really?

To go back to the core off this matter, the IFA is arguing that the Annex should apply to the FAI picking players, in the same way as it does to any other Association. Therefore, if an NI-born player does not have a parent/grandparent from ROI, or 2 years residence, then he is not eligible.

Whereas, by virtue of his (automatic) Irish Nationality, the FAI is arguing that the Annex does not apply.

At which point, notwithstanding my leaning towards the IFA case, I have consistently posted that I can see the rationale behind both cases and so am prepared to wait for FIFA to determine which is correct.
And the latest is that FIFA has declined to make a decision, even after nearly 12 months, and written and personal submissions by both Associations. This is clear proof that the issue is not cut and dried, nor finalised, as you have consistently claimed.

Further, you point to the October 2006 Letter as "proof" of your case. It is my guess (no more) that this was sent out prematurely, without the Legal Department having fully considered the implications for the rest of their (non-Irish) Membership. Otherwise, if FIFA were confident that that Letter is correct and must stand, why would they go through a lengthy process of consultation? Why would they have made their latest suggested compromise?

Moreover, following last month's meetings with the two Associations, they look to have indicated that they would come down on the IFA's side. Now I accept that the IFA may have been capable of misconstruing the "vibes". Alternatively, I guess it is just possible that they were bluffing - although any such bluff was going to make them look incredibly stupid when called!
But these are unlikely (imo), since it is clear that when the FAI returned from Zurich on the Monday evening, even John Delaney seems top have felt that at best, Gibson was OK, but no more than that, since there would be no retrospective change from the status quo ante (i.e. that the FAI was now picking NI-born players).
And even if Delaney (or RTE) also had got it wrong, your certainty of the FAI's case was flatly contradicted when Staunton/Givens/U-23 Manager (name?) were instructed by FIFA NOT to pick NI-born players in the interim, until this matter was definitively resolved.

From my reading between the lines, my guess is that until possibly as recently as last week, FIFA were of the opinion that, following an exhaustive review, the IFA's case was correct. Then very recently something or someone caused them to pull back from saying so. This may have been something internal within FIFA, or it might have been something external (though I personally doubt this latter, notwithstanding the attempts by certain Irish politicians to claim some sort of "credit"). Or, it may even be that their Legal Dept. was embarrassed to have to come down on the IFA's side, since that would have forced them to concede that their Oct. 2006 letter to the IFA (copied to the FAI) was wrong!

If I am correct with the above surmising, then that would explain one of the most puzzling aspects of this whole matter, which is that when asked to choose between two cases (IFA and FAI), FIFA still haven't done so, even after all this time.

It looks to me that it is not that they cannot decide, rather that they don't want to decide.

[EalingGreen]

Now - in future, please desist from misrepresenting my views please.

NB, you're wasting your time appealing to Lopez's integrity, since he has none. Earlier this week he accused me of "smugly jumping the gun" in assuming that the IFA had won its case with FIFA, a complete fabrication on his part.

I provided a post of mine from just a week earlier which made it cystal clear that the complete opposite was true and challenged him to find even one example of from all my many posts on this topic to back his claim.

As is invariably the case, he went silent on this - perhaps in the hope that if he made some other claim, then no-one would notice just what a bullsh1tter he really is.

[ifk101]

From my reading between the lines, my guess is that until possibly as recently as last week, FIFA were of the opinion that, following an exhaustive review, the IFA's case was correct. Then very recently something or someone caused them to pull back from saying so. This may have been something internal within FIFA, or it might have been something external (though I personally doubt this latter, notwithstanding the attempts by certain Irish politicians to claim some sort of "credit"). Or, it may even be that their Legal Dept. was embarrassed to have to come down on the IFA's side, since that would have forced them to concede that their Oct. 2006 letter to the IFA (copied to the FAI) was wrong!

A lot of assumptions there EG. Maybe a letter writing politician is to blame. Don't forget what happened to Kuwait.

[EalingGreen]

EG better get onto the IFA about this and start pointing out that 'politcal interference' might get the NI thrown out of the World Cup qualifiers. Then again, is the UUP still in existence?

Is it that you are incapable of understanding simple concepts, or that you are so determined to score points, that you simply ignore them should they prove inconvenient?

It is clear that FIFA does not brook political interference either in the affairs of one of their Members, or in an attempt to thwart or frustrate FIFA itself. Their latest suspension of the Kuwaiti FA is a case in point:

At last weekend's Meeting of FIFA's Associations Committee, they expressed great concern about political interference in the running of certain National Associations, with the Kuwait FA now being suspended from FIFA for just that reason:
"Kuwait - Contrary to the road map established by FIFA and the AFC, the Kuwaiti Public Authority for Youth and Sport has continued to interfere. Elections were held on 9 October in direct violation of the FIFA Executive Committee's May 2007 decision to the contrary. As a consequence, the committee recommend to the FIFA Executive Committee that the Kuwait Football Association be suspended"
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federa...ciples+members

When I pointed this out to you, you came back with complete nonsense about the British Government putting money into Wembley, or even Windsor Park, as constituting political "interference".

The fact is, any National Association is perfectly free to enlist the assistance, financial or otherwise, of governments or politicians in furthering their aims. The key to this is that it must be voluntary on the Association's part, with no strings attached. Otherwise, no Association would ever e.g. be allowed to receive grants etc from their own Governments*.

In the campaign to resolve this matter, each Association is perfectly entitled to enlist the assistance of any politicians they like (though whether FIFA will entertain them is another matter!)

What will not be tolerated is politicians or Governments seeking to instruct FIFA what they must do in such cases. Further, following an instruction by FIFA to one of their Member Associations to act in a certain manner, FIFA will not tolerate it if political elements in the country concerned were to instruct the Member to disregard FIFA. In such cases, FIFA may suspend/expel the Association, even where the Association itself had not welcomed the political interference.

It's not difficult, really...


* - If Governments weren't allowed to fund Associations, none of them would ever have able to host World Cups or European Championships etc for the last 50 years...

[Wolfie]

Really?

To go back to the core off this matter, the IFA is arguing that the Annex should apply to the FAI picking players, in the same way as it does to any other Association. Therefore, if an NI-born player does not have a parent/grandparent from ROI, or 2 years residence, then he is not eligible.

Whereas, by virtue of his (automatic) Irish Nationality, the FAI is arguing that the Annex does not apply.

At which point, notwithstanding my leaning towards the IFA case, I have consistently posted that I can see the rationale behind both cases and so am prepared to wait for FIFA to determine which is correct.
And the latest is that FIFA has declined to make a decision, even after nearly 12 months, and written and personal submissions by both Associations. This is clear proof that the issue is not cut and dried, nor finalised, as you have consistently claimed.

Further, you point to the October 2006 Letter as "proof" of your case. It is my guess (no more) that this was sent out prematurely, without the Legal Department having fully considered the implications for the rest of their (non-Irish) Membership. Otherwise, if FIFA were confident that that Letter is correct and must stand, why would they go through a lengthy process of consultation? Why would they have made their latest suggested compromise?

Moreover, following last month's meetings with the two Associations, they look to have indicated that they would come down on the IFA's side. Now I accept that the IFA may have been capable of misconstruing the "vibes". Alternatively, I guess it is just possible that they were bluffing - although any such bluff was going to make them look incredibly stupid when called!
But these are unlikely (imo), since it is clear that when the FAI returned from Zurich on the Monday evening, even John Delaney seems top have felt that at best, Gibson was OK, but no more than that, since there would be no retrospective change from the status quo ante (i.e. that the FAI was now picking NI-born players).
And even if Delaney (or RTE) also had got it wrong, your certainty of the FAI's case was flatly contradicted when Staunton/Givens/U-23 Manager (name?) were instructed by FIFA NOT to pick NI-born players in the interim, until this matter was definitively resolved.

From my reading between the lines, my guess is that until possibly as recently as last week, FIFA were of the opinion that, following an exhaustive review, the IFA's case was correct. Then very recently something or someone caused them to pull back from saying so. This may have been something internal within FIFA, or it might have been something external (though I personally doubt this latter, notwithstanding the attempts by certain Irish politicians to claim some sort of "credit"). Or, it may even be that their Legal Dept. was embarrassed to have to come down on the IFA's side, since that would have forced them to concede that their Oct. 2006 letter to the IFA (copied to the FAI) was wrong!

If I am correct with the above surmising, then that would explain one of the most puzzling aspects of this whole matter, which is that when asked to choose between two cases (IFA and FAI), FIFA still haven't done so, even after all this time.

It looks to me that it is not that they cannot decide, rather that they don't want to decide.

A lot of surmising and reading between lines there.

Jaysus, I'd need a few lines to keep me awake to scrutinise the who, what, why's and wherefore's of all this.

[EalingGreen]

A lot of assumptions there EG. Maybe a letter writing politician is to blame. Don't forget what happened to Kuwait.

In the absence of any explanation from any source, I have made no "assumptions" at all, merely guesses.

P.S. I'm hardly likely to have forgotten the example of the Kuwait FA, since it was I who first posted a reference to them on this Board! Anyhow, as I have attempted to explain to (the intellectually or ethically challenged) Lopez, above, the IFA enlisting help from Unionist politicians or the FAI enlisting help from their Nationalist counterparts is nothing like what happened in Kuwait.

[bwagner]

We are a different race Paul . Not Brazil I seriously appologise if I sounded rude.I honestly like the Northern team and followed them even in the bad days. I even wear the training top to which I bought in Newry.
I did apply but never got a reply from the admin at all.

wagner, no need for that stuff, really, talk about pot calling the kettle black, you call them racists etc etc, yet you say he shouldn't be allowed on this site etc. Btw I never knew the anglo saxons and the celts were a different "race" now, that channel 4 program has made me even more confused

NB and EG, from me at least ( not that ye care either id say ) ye are more than welcome on this site. Though then again I am not an admin so does it really matter!



Who? I might register. Do they let ppl with "O" in their name register *jokes* meant for bwagner!

[ifk101]

In the absence of any explanation from any source, I have made no "assumptions" at all, merely guesses.

P.S. I'm hardly likely to have forgotten the example of the Kuwait FA, since it was I who first referred to them on this Board! Besides, as I have attempted to explain to (the intellectually or ethically challenged) Lopez, above, the IFA enlisting help from Unionist politicians or the FAI enlisting help from their Nationalist counterparts is nothing like what happened in Kuwait.

Yes but why did you bring Kuwait into the argument? What relevance does it have?

You are also guessing that something behind the scenes in the FIFA corridors has occurred to the deteriment of the IFA and the Northern Ireland team. Your guessing suggests that its the FAI, an Irish politican, or something internal in the FIFA that has occured. Why don't you guess that maybe it is related to the IFA or somebody/something sharing the IFA's viewpoint? Perhaps something the IFA/or those supporting the IFA have done has changed FIFA's viewpoint. Is this plausible?

[youngirish]

Why don't you guess that maybe it is related to the IFA or somebody/something sharing the IFA's viewpoint? Perhaps something the IFA/or those supporting the IFA have done has changed FIFA's viewpoint. Is this plausible?

I don't believe FIFA's viewpoint has ever changed. I doubt that there's been the turnaround within the corridors of FIFA that EG or the IFA seem to be indicating.

Perhaps the IFA just misread the situation, very prematurely.

[ifk101]

Perhaps the IFA just misread the situation, very prematurely.

That's what I suspect happened. The IFA believed that that a ruling in their favour was forthcoming and became complacent. My guessing is that the FAI were "better prepared" for the Zurich meeting than what the IFA were. Simply put - the FAI presented their viewpoint better than what the IFA did.

[Ireland4ever]

13 Pages on this muck....yawn!

[geysir]

If I am correct with the above surmising, then that would explain one of the most puzzling aspects of this whole matter, which is that when asked to choose between two cases (IFA and FAI), FIFA still haven't done so, even after all this time.

It looks to me that it is not that they cannot decide, rather that they don't want to decide.

Ealing Green, you haven´t been correct about anything FIFA related so far, why should we believe that now all of a sudden that you have the amazing ability to surmise based on your ability to read (conspiracies) between the lines.
You can't even read the lines when they are in black and white in front of you.
Probably that is the most imbecilic post you have ever written but I stand open to correction on that observation.

[gustavo]

13 Pages on this muck....yawn!

and yet you felt the need to not only open the thread but reply to it

[EalingGreen]

Yes but why did you bring Kuwait into the argument? What relevance does it have?

You are also guessing that something behind the scenes in the FIFA corridors has occurred to the deteriment of the IFA and the Northern Ireland team. Your guessing suggests that its the FAI, an Irish politican, or something internal in the FIFA that has occured. Why don't you guess that maybe it is related to the IFA or somebody/something sharing the IFA's viewpoint? Perhaps something the IFA/or those supporting the IFA have done has changed FIFA's viewpoint. Is this plausible?

Throughout the whole Gibson thread, a consistent them from many posters was that if FIFA determined against the FAI, then the Irish Government etc would react to overturn this (legal challenges etc). I equally consistently pointed out that FIFA would not brook such political interference either in their own affairs or that of any of its Members.

Latterly, I desisted from adding to the Gibson thread whilst I waited for FIFA to decide. However, I did note FIFA's latest suspension of a Member for political interference (Kuwait) as a topical illustration of my earlier point. Nothing more, really.

As for what may very recently have caused FIFA to back away from their apparent support of the IFA after their meeting the two Associations, I really can't think why the IFA should want to deflect FIFA from giving them the verdict they sought, especially since FIFA are suggesting replacing it with a "compromise" which is totally unacceptable to the IFA.

They may be capable of scoring own goals by accident, but not even the IFA is going to do so by design!

I don't believe FIFA's viewpoint has ever changed. I doubt that there's been the turnaround within the corridors of FIFA that EG or the IFA seem to be indicating.

Perhaps the IFA just misread the situation, very prematurely.

The IFA were clearly premature in indicating "off-the-record" that FIFA was going to go the IFA's way, as apparently was Delaney (though it may actually have been more of a case of journalists overstating the case). Whether they (IFA) were premature, and to what extent, in assuming they had won is another matter.

On which point, FIFA's Legal Department sent out a letter in October 2006 which the FAI was using as the basis of its selection of NI-born players. If FIFA weren't at least reconsidering that position, why didn't they merely tell the IFA to sling their hook, rather than inviting them (and the FAI) to submit their case?

Why did they instruct three FAI managers not to pick NI-born players after they had previously done so? And why did those managers comply?

Indeed, why have FIFA come out with the present suggested "compromise", rather than stand by their October 2006 Letter?

Can anyone from amongst those supporters of the FAI's case answer any of these questions. (I'm not stirring, merely genuinely perplexed)

Ealing Green, you haven´t been correct about anything FIFA related so far, why should we believe that now all of a sudden that you have the amazing ability to surmise based on your ability to read (conspiracies) between the lines.
You can't even read the lines when they are in black and white in front of you.
Probably that is the most imbecilic post you have ever written but I stand open to correction on that observation.

I said all along that the case is yet to be decided by FIFA. You have said all along (on the basis of the October 2006 Letter) that it has been decided.

FIFA's most recent Letter to both Associations (the suggested "compromise") proves that I am correct on this and that you are wrong.

Therefore, you are in no position to make your frankly insulting assertions against me, especially since at no stage do I recall ever having behaved similarly towards you.

P.S. The ability to "surmise" (whether accurately or otherwise) is open to eveyone, so it's hardly "amazing". Neither have I ever alleged a "conspiracy" (your term) by FIFA in this matter.

[ifk101]

Throughout the whole Gibson thread, a consistent them from many posters was that if FIFA determined against the FAI, then the Irish Government etc would react to overturn this (legal challenges etc). I equally consistently pointed out that FIFA would not brook such political interference either in their own affairs or that of any of its Members.

Latterly, I desisted from adding to the Gibson thread whilst I waited for FIFA to decide. However, I did note FIFA's latest suspension of a Member for political interference (Kuwait) as a topical illustration of my earlier point. Nothing more, really.

As for what may very recently have caused FIFA to back away from their apparent support of the IFA after their meeting the two Associations, I really can't think why the IFA should want to deflect FIFA from giving them the verdict they sought, especially since FIFA are suggesting replacing it with a "compromise" which is totally unacceptable to the IFA.

They may be capable of scoring own goals by accident, but not even the IFA is going to do so by design!

Not necessarily what I'm implying. I'm suggesting that the IFA had a belief that the decision forthcoming from FIFA was a foregone conclusion. I not saying that they tried to deflect or scored an own goal. I'm saying that perhaps their belief that the decision was a foregone conclusion led to complacency and that their "performance" in the Zurich was less/ weaker that the FAI's "performance".

What's interesting is that you see the rationale behind both sides of the fence yet FIFA's proposal has led you to guess that something behind the scenes has taken place by the FAI, people supporting the FAI or internally in FIFA. Whilst you list your guesses as to why FIFA has put forward this proposal who don't guess that perhaps IFA's actions/ inactions have influenced the FIFA proposal.

I think you need to factor in the IFA's roll in FIFA's proposal and not ignore it. Perhaps previous comments from IFA employees has influenced FIFA.