Eligibility proposal

[Dodge]

Bizarre.

As is all aspects of Ireland/Northern Ireland.

BTW this clears the way for Northern ireland to legally play players from anywhere in Britain or Ireland.

[co. down green]

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

A bit like Maik taylor then, who was born in Germany to a German mother & English father, and has no grandparents from the island of Ireland

[cavan_fan]

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"?

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players.

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

[EalingGreen]

And you can still do so.

Not if some of those players are being offered the choice to represent another Association by a "mechanism" which is not open to players from any of the other 206 Associations in FIFA.

[EalingGreen]

BTW this clears the way for Northern ireland to legally play players from anywhere in Britain or Ireland.

"Ireland", maybe but most definitely NOT "anywhere in Britain", for two reasons. First, this FIFA Proposal appears specifically to refer only to players born in Ireland. Second, there is already in place an Agreement between the four British Associations which prevents this (an Agreement recognised by FIFA, btw)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"?

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players. It wouldn't even matter if they turned out to be better than the ROI players in their respective positions. It wouldn't even matter if they were the next Paul McGrath and for some reason genuinely preferred to play for us rather than ROI. It wouldn't even matter if more Southerners wanted to play for us than Northerners wanted to play for ROI.

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

Out of interest, say a unionist family living on Donegal or Cavan (or even Cork or Dublin) since partition who still participate in the 12th July marches that still go on in that part of the 26 counties produced a son who turned out to be an exceptional player and wanted to play for NI. Would you accept him as your player or turn him away?

[EalingGreen]

A bit like Maik taylor then, who was born in Germany to a German mother & English father, and has no grandparents from the island of Ireland

Maik Taylor was first capped by NI in the last century(!), when the Rules were very different from those applicable today. Were another Maik Taylor to come along, we would not seek to select him, nor would we be allowed to, either by the other "home" Associations, nor by FIFA.

Maik Taylor is not the issue, here.

[geysir]

For those from NI who wanted the Annex criteria applied and are now bitter and dissapointed.
The IFA have a poor understanding of the Fifa Statutes of eligibility and what the Annex criteria of eligibilty was about.
Fifa have not deviated one bit from Article 15. The Annex criteria do not apply.

To start with, the IFA arguement had no foundation. I said before that Howard Wells was leading them up a garden path and that it was actually Well's responsibilty to inform the NI fans of how FIFA statutes are applied. Instead we had a very public, parish pump communal politicising, raising the emotions of NI supporters.
If there is any residue of bitterness left after this affair, I can only hold the IFA responsible for that.
The FAI have approached this whole issue appropriatly while the IFA employees were making headlines the FAI kept their heads down.
The FAI could have raised public emotions about the aspirations of young nationals born in the North, they didn't.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.

Fair point about Taylor though, it's a bit precious for NI fans to take some sort of moral high ground when they're using that kink in the rules on eligibility.

[cavan_fan]

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.

Yes it always irritated me about 'Ulster says No' that no-one asked me. Ulster of course has a Nationalist majority.

[NeilMcD]

As with all these things, its the people who are rubbing things in on either side who are letting the side down. A mature debate with no childish comments will achieve nothing. I can see how it will polarise the football community up the north but I am sure it was like that anyway.

Excuse my ignorance but why could Martin O Neill and Gerry Armstrong and Pat Jennings play for the north and not the likes of Darron Gibson. Surely if you are truly nationalist or repbulican, playing for the Republic of Ireland in an exceptance of partition.

[EalingGreen]

Out of interest, say a unionist family living on Donegal or Cavan (or even Cork or Dublin) since partition who still participate in the 12th July marches that still go on in that part of the 26 counties produced a son who turned out to be an exceptional player and wanted to play for NI. Would you accept him as your player or turn him away?

Unless he had a grandparent born before 1921 (increasingly unlikely), had a parent or grandparent born in NI since 1921, or had himself lived continuously in NI for at least two years, we would not pick him, since he has no connection, for eligibility purposes, with us.

His politics or personal aspirations don't come into it, either. Possibly the most committed NI fan I've ever met is an Englishman called Shaun. Many years ago, when Albania was still completely closed to the West, he realised he could fulfil a long-held ambition to visit that country by accompanying the NI football team who were drawn in the same qualifying Group as them (couldn't get a Visa any other way).

As it happens, this (poor, deluded ) chap rather enjoyed the experience for the football as well as the travel, and hasn't missed a single NI match since, home or away! He invariably dresses from head-to-toe in green and white, much to the amusement of the NI fans, and the bemusement of the opposing fans! He's even written a book on his experiences.

But if ever he or his son were good enough to represent NI, we couldn't accept him, since even though his Passport is from the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", he doesn't have the necessary connection to be eligible.

[geysir]

Excuse my ignorance but why could Martin O Neill and Gerry Armstrong and Pat Jennings play for the north and not the likes of Darron Gibson. Surely if you are truly nationalist or repbulican, playing for the Republic of Ireland in an exceptance of partition.

There was a gentleman's agreement. No so called poaching was allowed. A gentleman's agreement prevented the FAI from approaching Pat Jennings etc.
Brian Kerr, it is alleged, responded to pleas of young lads wanting to declare for the Republic.
Not many will want to declare I'd imagine but a few good ones will be a loss to the IFA.

[Dodge]

"Ireland", maybe but most definitely NOT "anywhere in Britain", for two reasons. First, this FIFA Proposal appears specifically to refer only to players born in Ireland. Second, there is already in place an Agreement between the four British Associations which prevents this (an Agreement recognised by FIFA, btw)

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it

[EalingGreen]

I'm assuming that reference was down to the fact that you are also an Ulsterman rather then the annoying habit some have of refering to Notern Ireland as Ulster when it only consists of 2/3rds of the province.

Fair point about Taylor though, it's a bit precious for NI fans to take some sort of moral high ground when they're using that kink in the rules on eligibility.

If it's my use of the "Ulsterman" tag you refer to, I was only having a laugh with (my fellow Ulsterman) Cavanman - hence the wee wink.

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!

However, following the Qatari/Brazilian affair, FIFA changed its Rules with regard to eligibility, so that the IFA considered that players otherwise eligible for NI were now being selected by another Association (FAI), in contravention of the new Rules. Therefore, they objected.

Whether they are correct in their interpretation or not, who is such a stance inconsistent?

[Superhoops]

Dont get me started on the Ulster v Northern Ireland issue!

I'm not saying that NI fans want southern rejects but you'd be surprised how you can adapt! We could offer some advice as part of the Andy Townsend course in adopted countires! Does anyone in NI really think they were Maik Taylor's first choice?

Whats this southern your keep referring to? Cork/Kerry??

If you mean from the Republic say so. I hate the term 'Southern Ireland' when it is used to encompass the Republic. It is bad enough hearing it from Brits and Yanks, but not from our own.

Rant over !!!!

[geysir]

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it

There is an agreement lodged with FIFA in 2003 by the 4 UK "home countries" that the Annex criteria be applied to footballers in deciding which team they can declare for.

[Dodge]

Whether they are correct in their interpretation or not, who is such a stance inconsistent?

Because the point of the rule was not to stop players with legitimate claims to dual nationality from representing their country of choice. It was not intended to effect existing arrangements.

The intention of the rule was to stop people being paid to change nationality. You obviously know the situation regarding Irish/British citizens so you can quit playing the dumb innocent here

[Dodge]

There is an agreement lodged with FIFA in 2003 by the 4 UK "home countries" that the Annex criteria be applied to footballers in deciding which team they can declare for.

My mistake. apologies so

[paul_oshea]

Whats this southern your keep referring to? Cork/Kerry??

If you mean from the Republic say so. I hate the term 'Southern Ireland' when it is used to encompass the Republic. It is bad enough hearing it from Brits and Yanks, but not from our own.

Rant over !!!!

Ya I have a point of doing this too....especially to the brits. I remember my sister took great issue* with a scottish busker in germany about 10 - 15 years ago and that memory has stayed with me ever since. She simply replied "No, the west of Ireland", to the question "Are you from southern Ireland?"

Issue after the above answer