Eligibility proposal

[Drumcondra 69er]

If it's my use of the "Ulsterman" tag you refer to, I was only having a laugh with (my fellow Ulsterman) Cavanman - hence the wee wink.

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!

However, following the Qatari/Brazilian affair, FIFA changed its Rules with regard to eligibility, so that the IFA considered that players otherwise eligible for NI were now being selected by another Association (FAI), in contravention of the new Rules. Therefore, they objected.

Thought that was it re the 'Ulsterma' quip alright.

Can't agree with the Taylor situation being the same as the granny rule though, at least those players selected via the granny rule had some sort of blood tie to teh country, Taylor had no such tie and was simply eligible due to being a UK citizen born abroad.

Didn't realise that rule specific to the UK had been superceeded by the Qatar ruling.

[paul_oshea]

moon , howling , the , dogs, at.

Lad, power in numbers. always has been always will be.....as the whole arguement you and others posed, the human right of anybody to decide....

[Maroon 7]

For those from NI who wanted the Annex criteria applied and are now bitter and dissapointed.
The IFA have a poor understanding of the Fifa Statutes of eligibility and what the Annex criteria of eligibilty was about.
Fifa have not deviated one bit from Article 15. The Annex criteria do not apply.

To start with, the IFA arguement had no foundation. I said before that Howard Wells was leading them up a garden path and that it was actually Well's responsibilty to inform the NI fans of how FIFA statutes are applied. Instead we had a very public, parish pump communal politicising, raising the emotions of NI supporters.
If there is any residue of bitterness left after this affair, I can only hold the IFA responsible for that.
The FAI have approached this whole issue appropriatly while the IFA employees were making headlines the FAI kept their heads down.
The FAI could have raised public emotions about the aspirations of young nationals born in the North, they didn't.

For once the FAI seem to have played bllinder on this one. They stayed relatively quiet throughout only releasing statements when required. Recognising that it was a sensitive issue. As opposed to the IFA, Howard Wells and their friends in the media who were shooting their mouths off at every available oppertunity.

[paul_oshea]

For once the FAI seem to have played bllinder on this one. They stayed relatively quiet throughout only releasing statements when required. Recognising that it was a sensitive issue. As opposed to the IFA, Howard Wells and their friends in the media who were shooting their mouths off at every available oppertunity.

Thats not an entirely new thing up there now is it empty vessels and all that....

[EalingGreen]

If thats the case I read on the paper, it was rugby not soccer, and he only attended private school there.

You must be referring to a different case. I meant Andrew Driver, of Hearts. I can't find the exact reference, but here is an extract from a Scottish Newspaper article:

"Awardee Driver misses Scots caps
Hearts winger Andrew Driver picked up the SPL young player of the month award [for September] but admitted that he has no chance of another accolade - a Scotland cap.

The 19-year-old was born in England and must look there for further honours.

"I moved here when I was 11, so I've grown up in Scotland," said Driver, who scored in victories over Hearts and St Mirren during September.

"I even scored for the schoolboy side against England. I was eligible because I was at school here."

Driver had considered challenging the ruling but has admitted defeat.

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"

[paul_oshea]

You must be referring to a different case. I meant Andrew Driver, of Hearts. I can't find the exact reference, but here is an extract from a Scottish Newspaper article:

"Awardee Driver misses Scots caps
Hearts winger Andrew Driver picked up the SPL young player of the month award [for September] but admitted that he has no chance of another accolade - a Scotland cap.

The 19-year-old was born in England and must look there for further honours.

"I moved here when I was 11, so I've grown up in Scotland," said Driver, who scored in victories over Hearts and St Mirren during September.

"I even scored for the schoolboy side against England. I was eligible because I was at school here."

Driver had considered challenging the ruling but has admitted defeat.

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"

Nah, thats not the one EG.

[lopez]

Absolutely corect Eirebhoy - only interested in players who want to play for Northern Ireland...

If you were only interested in those that want to play for you, FIFA's decision means nothing. In fact it might increase the players that want to play for you. This statement of yours is pathetic. 'I'm not interested in players who don't want to play for NI. I just don't want them playing for anyone else if they're not interested in NI.' Pretty sad IMO.

[liaml]

It polarises and divides by potentially creating a "usuns to the right, themuns to the left" environment.

You don't have to read too deeply into the message boards today to see that.

It's supposed to be about Mutual respect actually. You know, you've got an Irish passport - I've got a British, you vote for one party - I vote for another. You come from one tradition, I come for a different one. I don't see why respecting a players decision to play for the country he's been a citizen of since birth should be any more polarising that any of the above.

It would have polarised and divided the North further still to force Nationalists to play for a team they did not identify with and wanted no part in.

[EalingGreen]

Can't agree with the Taylor situation being the same as the granny rule though, at least those players selected via the granny rule had some sort of blood tie to teh country, Taylor had no such tie and was simply eligible due to being a UK citizen born abroad.

Didn't realise that rule specific to the UK had been superceeded by the Qatar ruling.

Taylor's case is not identical to the "granny" players; however, i was merely making the point that he was eligible for NI under the Rules which existed then, exactly as the "granny" players were entirely eligible for the ROI, even though some of them had no more affinity with their "new" country than Taylor had.

And by now seeking that FIFA's Rules be applied correctly (as they see it), post Annex, the IFA is being entirely consistent with its previous practice of applying the Rules correctly in order to select Taylor.

However, if another Taylor came along, we would not select him (though God knows, we could do with a replacement for him, soon)

[Lionel Ritchie]

"The British countries have an agreement where you're only allowed to play for a country if you've got blood relatives, so I've no chance," he told the Sunday Mail as he picked up his Clydesdale Bank award.

Oldham-born Driver praised the Hearts youth system, from which he graduated to the first team.

"Hearts have brought through a lot of players recently," he told the club website"

Absolute madness. If that lad came from Indo-China or Antartica he might have a Scotland cap by now.

[lopez]

You accuse me (above) of ...

Just to remind you of some of the tosh you've posted on here (we'll leave Madeline McCann out of this BTW) is the smug assertion that the IFA had this in the bag. Then there was the claim that FIFA don't tolerate 'political influence', suggesting that the Irish government could not raise the case against FIFA without fear of the FAI being thrown out of all their competitions. Now, the bucky seems to have kicked in again, and you are suggesting that the all powerful Ma-FIFA were knobbled. Who by? The FAI? The Irish government? Uncle Gerry and Uncle Martin ringing up and saying 'we know where all you lot live'?

You are a class act EG, there's no doubting that.

[gspain]

Just to clarify FIFA would allow Andrew Driver to play for Scotland. However he is not eligible under a private arrangement between the 4 UK football nations which imposes private rules on who can play given that they share a common nationality.

[charliesboots]

Abolute madness. If that lad came from Indo-China or Antartica he might have a Scotland cap by now.

Exactly that's why I asked about naturalisation earlier. If the lad has lived in Scotland for 8/9 years then surely he should be entitled to play for them.

edit - if above post by gspain is correct then surely the agreement between the four associations should be amended to rectify the situation.

[NeilMcD]

Exactly that's why I asked about naturalisation earlier. If the lad has lived in Scotland for 8/9 years then surely he should be entitled to play for them.

edit - if above post by gspain is correct then surely the agreement between the four associations should be amended to rectify the situation.

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

[charliesboots]

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

Surely they could just amend the agreement to allow for people to be naturalised as per FIFA regulations for other countries (or more stringent if they wish).

I mean if you're born in England with English heritage but move to Scotland when you're a few months old, live there you're whole life, consider yourself Scottish and want to play for Scotland, you should be entitled to.

[Absinthe]

If they dont have the agreement well then the whole point of having a four different teams witll go out of existance and they would be logically forced into having a UK team.

Not arguing with you, but by that logic why would we have 2 Irish teams picking from the same territory.

This suggestion by FIFA, means that in effect we could have 2 Idenitical teams, in terms of eligibility.

It would be possible for example, within FIFA's rules for the RoI to field a team of U21 Dubliners, in a friendly, and then for NI to call them all up and use them in a Senior International?

Bravo, chaps, Bravo.

For the record, I would rather that, you could pick our players and we couldnt pick yours. Fair, No. But at least it would differentiate between the two teams.

As was said before on this thread we might as well rename the Teams Ireland A, and Ireland B, if this ruling goes ahead.

(Of course, you would be Ireland B, as we were originally called Ireland, and are the original association. Tough break, but there you go)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Surely they could just amend the agreement to allow for people to be naturalised as per FIFA regulations for other countries (or more stringent if they wish).

I mean if you're born in England with English heritage but move to Scotland when you're a few months old, live there you're whole life, consider yourself Scottish and want to play for Scotland, you should be entitled to.

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

[charliesboots]

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

They wouldn't if they were over 21 when deciding as per the FIFA rules (I think)

[Dodge]

Couldn't really work though, the likes of Chris Sutton and Alan Thomspon would have become eligible for Scotland after playing for Celtic for two years, that's what the respective associations want to avoid.

They can avoid it by making people choose their nationality by 18. Would also stop the Clinto Morrisons of this world...

[Absinthe]

They can avoid it by making people choose their nationality by 18. Would also stop the Clinto Morrisons of this world...

They already have this, and the age is set at 21.

3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:
(i) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

As said in a previous post, because of this rule FIFA would need to make it clear what someone born in Northern Ireland's 'default' team is.