Eligibility proposal

[EalingGreen]

Why the quotes around "Ireland"? Are you saying I was incorrect to use the name of the state? And I deliberately used the term "legally" meaning if NI decided to pick a player born in England and with no connection to NI, there is nothing FIFA can do to stop it

Re your first point, I used " " merely because it was a quotation, exactly as with "anywhere in Britain". But I'm quite happy to excise those quotation marks, if you wish.

As for you second point, the suggested compromise from FIFA makes no reference to players born in England, or anywhere else outwith Ireland. Instead, it specifically refers only to players born in Ireland.

In fact, by my interpretation of the Rules - chiefly that damned Annex - we would be barred by FIFA from picking a player born in England with no connection to NI (or a Maik Taylor, for that matter).

Moreover, the four Home Associations have a written agreement which prevents any of them acting in such a way. This Agreement is recognised by FIFA, who would almost certainly not intervene, should any individual player challenge it.

(In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.)

[charliesboots]

Is naturalisation ruled out altogether in this wonderful FIFA annex on eligibility?

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

[EalingGreen]

Because the point of the rule was not to stop players with legitimate claims to dual nationality from representing their country of choice. It was not intended to effect existing arrangements.

The intention of the rule was to stop people being paid to change nationality. You obviously know the situation regarding Irish/British citizens so you can quit playing the dumb innocent here

I'm not playing the dumb innocent. I have consistently posted that I can see the basis for the FAI's case. However, I can also see the basis for the IFA's case. I had hoped that the latter would prevail. I still hope that the latter may somehow prevail, since the compromise [sic] suggested by FIFA has not actually rejected the IFA's submission (nor accepted the FAI's).

So whilst I accept that it may look bad for the IFA should they reject the compromise, thereby possibly colouring FIFA's view of them, I don't think this issue is settled yet.

[ifk101]

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

[charliesboots]

It isn't settled yet - thread title should be amended

[Dodge]

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

Yep, as in the situation with any naturalised Britons.

[charliesboots]

Trevor Wood was born in the Channel Islands so could "chose to play" for any of the "Home Nations" which includes "Northern Ireland" (if my understanding is "correct").

Yeah I know that and as with Maik Taylor he was eligible at the time. Would the IFA pick a similar player now though as some on here seem to think they wouldn't/couldn't pick Maik Taylor Taylor if he only declared now.

It's a tangent anyway to the main issue which relates to people born on the island.

[geysir]

It isn't settled yet - thread title should be amended

No it's not settled in the minds of the IFA. That unsettlement is based on a faulty reading of the FIFA rules of eligibility
Whereas FIFA have consistantly stuck with the eligibility rules of article 15.

[lopez]

...congratulations on getting one over on the people you wish to be "united" with.

Is this your trump card? That if we didn't allow players who want to represent their country, that the unionist population would consider accepting an 'all - Ireland' team with us? LOL!

Just as some in NI seem to have "jumped the gun" in believing the leaks that the IFA's case...

Primarily you.

...On which point, however well-intentioned FIFA may be in making this offer, it cannot be acceptable to the IFA, either in principle - we are not interested in selecting players from the ROI...

You might end up with a team that has nobody singing GSTQ. Then the IFA would definitely have to pull their finger out.

...I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody...

Here we go!

In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.

As you continually say if somone else brings in another associaion, what have they got to do with this subect?

[WembleyGreen]

What the 4 British associations agree amongst themselves about birthright etc is neither here nor there! The issue here is about whether players born in NI have the right to play for their country, the country THEY see as their country and not the IFA or FAI or even FIFA. Under the terms of the GFA being born in NI gives them the right to choose Irish citizenship and all the rights that go with that. Playing for your country is something any young lad would want to do and he can, he can play for NI if he feels that's his country or the RoI if he chooses that option that's the reality of it and that is what FIFA (it seems to me anyway) seem to be saying. I can understand the IFA's, EG and NB's frustration with this but that's the way it is and FIFA are not going to get bogged down in what is a uniquely Irish/British anomaly. The easiest option is to let the player make the choice and that's a reasonable solution, some players will choose with their heart others with their head/ambition, luck of the draw yes, but the right to choose must be respected no matter how much we don't like it or agree with it. You can't force people to play for you and anyway would any supporter like to see players playing for their country only because they have to on a legal technicality?

[EalingGreen]

Is naturalisation ruled out altogether in this wonderful FIFA annex on eligibility?

BTW why so much talk of Maik Taylor what about the great Trevor Wood?

Re your first point, naturalisation is not specifically allowed on its own as a basis for eligibility, but will effectively be so in 90%+ of cases. That is because in order to acquire naturalisation (and accompanying Passport), most countries also require a period of residence in excess of the two years specified by FIFA. Therefore, that residency would also satisfy the Annex.

Trevor Wood is a different case from Maik Taylor, since Taylor had a connection with at least two countries for whom he might alternatively have played (W.Germany by birth and England by ancestry). Woods was born in the Channel Isles, which has no international football team. In such rare cases, FIFA will not prevent someone entirely from the chance to play international football, so they said he could play for one of the Home countries, on the basis of his UK Passport. And since his parents and grandparents had no connection with any of Eng/Scot/Wales/NI, he was as free to choose one as the others. He chose NI, though his fellow Channel Islanders, Le Saux and Le Tissier, chose England. (I'm sure you can guess why they made their respective choices...)

[shaneker]

The ourweecountry lot have jumped the gun on us, they already have links to post messages to FIFA regarding their 'displeasure' with the proposal. Fair play to them, they don't hang around!

I see no reason for us to try and voice our opinions on the proposal, I have already sent a message saying I hope it is implemented and thanked them for their recognition of a unique situation here, and it can do no harm for others to do something similar. It only takes a minute.

http://www.fifa.com/contact/form.html I sent a message entitled 'FAI/IFA Eligibility Issue' under general enquiries. Back me up!

EDIT - Christ they move fast! Already their own thread 'Contact FIFA'. I really don't like the idea of FIFA getting contacted with one-way traffic against their proposal - if they're trying to sit on the fence, that can only do us harm. However I don't want to start the thread if its just going to be deleted and told to come back in here. Mods, whats the verdict?

[co. down green]

Simple (genuine) questions:

Are the FAI and IFA closer, or further apart, as a result of this decision?

How does that bode for good relations between the respective Associations?

The IFA's approaches to a number of 'northern born' Irish international players in the last month is hardly going to help relations.

But not to worry,the IFA were told to 'clear off' by the Irish lads.

[EalingGreen]

Primarily you.

You accuse me (above) of having "jumped the gun" in assuming the decision would go the IFA's way. Not so. This is what I posted in the relevant thread on 31st October:
"I have kept out of this thread recently (cheers all round, no doubt!), since I have said my piece and am content to wait for FIFA's final determination, due imminently.

If the decision goes against the IFA, then I, for one, shall accept it and get on with supporting NI"

You might end up with a team that has nobody singing GSTQ. Then the IFA would definitely have to pull their finger out.

It is not, and never has been, compulsory for the players to sing GSTQ. I doubt if some of them even know the words. I have frequently been at NI games where a majority of the players didn't sing it. I don't ever sing it, myself, either. As for the IFA, I have long advocated that they should replace GSTQ. This has nothing really to do with politics, mind, more a simple desire to be represented by a distinctively Northern Irish tune.

Here we go!
As you continually say if somone else brings in another associaion, what have they got to do with this subect?

In response to another poster who wondered whether a consequence of this suggestion by FIFA might not be that NI could now pick players from England, Scotland or Wales (or vice versa), I pointed out that this was not so, primarily due to a written Agreement preventing it, which is lodged with FIFA. I cited the case of the young English-born lad as a topical example to illustrate my point.

Keep trying, old boy

[liaml]

To those extending their sympathy to the IFA - catch a grip. I have absolutely no sympathy with the IFA or those NI fans that wished to force Irish citizens to play for a British team.

A self respecting country would only want players that _wanted_ to play for it.

[RogerMilla]

EDIT - Christ they move fast! Already their own thread 'Contact FIFA'. I really don't like the idea of FIFA getting contacted with one-way traffic against their proposal - if they're trying to sit on the fence, that can only do us harm. However I don't want to start the thread if its just going to be deleted and told to come back in here. Mods, whats the verdict?

moon , howling , the , dogs, at.

[shaneker]

You're probably right. Still, can hardly hurt, can it?

[paul_oshea]

(In fact, there was a very recent case of a young English-born lad whose family had moved him to Scotland at a young age. He plays for a Scottish club and wanted to declare for Scotland. Despite his having played for Scotland Schools, the English FA objected to his representing Scotland at any higher level, on the basis that the "Home" Agreement states that birthplace overrides all other considerations in case of dispute over eligibility between the four. The SFA accepted this.)

If thats the case I read on the paper, it was rugby not soccer, and he only attended private school there.

[Not Brazil]

I honestly don't. What has he to be disappointed for? Not Brazil has always said he only wants players that really want to play for Northern Ireland.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but I haven't a clue what you're talking about NB... How will it increase polarisation and divide both communities?

Absolutely corect Eirebhoy - only interested in players who want to play for Northern Ireland.

It polarises and divides by potentially creating a "usuns to the right, themuns to the left" environment.

You don't have to read too deeply into the message boards today to see that.

[Absinthe]

As for Taylor, our selection of him within the Rules as they stood then was no more unacceptable or unethical than e.g. the FAI selecting players under the "Granny Rule" who couldn't previously have identified Ireland on a map of Ireland!

Thats unfair. Jason McAteer couldnt have found England on a map either.