Eligibility proposal

**ifk101** · 20/12/2007, 6:51 AM

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Certainly time to move on from (the perennially cited) Maik Taylor, since new arrangements mean any new Taylor would not be eligible for NI. Though it is ironic that there is clearly no prouder player in the NI team than Big Maik, who e.g. always turns up for NI, whether in squad, bench or 1st XI, on form or off, fit or carrying an injury, unlike Fermanagh born-and-bred Roy Carroll, for example!

A simple yes to my question would of sufficed.

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Besides, our Big Maik is "cancelled out" by your Alan Kernaghan when it comes to picking players of dubious provenance...

We're all well-versed about Alan Kernaghan. But if I was a NI fan I'd be quite sad and frankly embarrassed by the whole Alan Kernaghan episode. Here you have a chap that was once a ball-boy at Windsor Park, that was in regular attendance at NI matches, that played schoolboy internationals for NI, and that had lived the majority of his life in NI. A chap that had dreamed of playing for NI but was denied. And didn't he get a nice bit of abuse for choosing to play with the Republic? But as I'm not a NI fan, as you know

, sadness and embarrassment are the opposite of my feelings on the matter.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 6:58 AM

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

What do you mean play for "us"? In rugby, there is an all-Ireland team: it's not a case of NI players playing for the Republic!

so I'm not allowed to call the rugby team I support "us" ? and by extension the all-ireland soccer team if it ever came about "us"? not that i am in any way advocating one or want one , or advocating political union either. I want any northern lad who wants to play for ROI to be eligible to do so and I am happy with the status quo. I understand your frustration at what you see as the diminishing for your player pool ,but I'm not even slightly sympathetic as I also want whats best for the ROI team and an increase in our player pool with lads eager to pull on the jersey is undoubtedly whats best.

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by lopez

I would have thought for many that the thought of playing for one club they despise may well be more of a decision than playing for the country of their birth or the country of their parents birth. But then you base everything on where yer mammy's waters broke dontcha.

I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:

a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland

So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?

Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?

*purely as a hypothetical example

-----------------------

To attempt to clear up the Maik Taylor situation :-

1) The rules were different back then
2) He was not eligible for any country directly, as he was born on british soil in Germany. I admit that I dont know for sure, but I would be surprised if he qualifies/d for a German Passport.

----------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower

What do you mean play for "us"? In rugby, there is an all-Ireland team: it's not a case of NI players playing for the Republic!

so I'm not allowed to call the rugby team I support "us" ? and by extension the all-ireland soccer team if it ever came about "us"? not that i am in any way advocating one or want one , or advocating political union either. I want any northern lad who wants to play for ROI to be eligible to do so and I am happy with the status quo. I understand your frustration at what you see as the diminishing for your player pool ,but I'm not even slightly sympathetic as I also want whats best for the ROI team and an increase in our player pool with lads eager to pull on the jersey is undoubtedly whats best.

I think the problem with you calling the team 'us', would be linked to the Irish Rugby team carrying all the 'trappings' of a Republic of Ireland rugby team re. flags and anthems. The players play for their National Team, not for 'you'.

I dont think its acceptable, but it doesnt bother me overly, and I do support the Ireland rugby team. But, it does stop a lot of people in Northern Ireland from the supporting the Ireland Rugby Team.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 8:05 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

I think the problem with you calling the team 'us', would be linked to the Irish Rugby team carrying all the 'trappings' of a Republic of Ireland rugby team re. flags and anthems. The players play for their National Team, not for 'you'.

I dont think its acceptable, but it doesnt bother me overly, and I do support the Ireland rugby team. But, it does stop a lot of people in Northern Ireland from the supporting the Ireland Rugby Team.

The players play for "me" by extension , if i and the rest of the supporters didnt turn up to support them or support the game at all levels then the honour of representing the island would be massively diminished. Still an honour but I think "I" bring something to the table.

Anyone from Northern Ireland from any community there who likes rugby but does not support the Irish Rugby team need to have a look at themselves. If Paisley and Mcguinness can wish them well then surely everyone can ?

this is being dragged off topic now , we can go into "other sports" if you want to go into the rugby teams inclusiveness more.

**geysir** · 20/12/2007, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:

a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland

So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?

Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?
*purely as a hypothetical example

Absinthe, a post like this is so lazy it qualifies as trolling. If you do not understand the eligibility rules then read the thread, there are enough posts explaining exactly the eligibility situation.
If you do not want to do that, then I suggest stop putting an argument for why is he eligible? and why the annex criteria do not apply?
Both those matters have been dealt with emphatically.

As regards to Darron Gibson,
Derry 9/11/07
"I would say the decision is a good thing for young footballers in N. Ireland. In my experience, many players would prefer to play for the Republic so it's definitely a good thing for the FAI. Then again, there are players who will opt to play for Northern Ireland so, from a player's point of view, I think it's good to have a choice.

"From my own personal viewpoint, I'm really enjoying being part of the Republic of Ireland squad. It's been brilliant so far and I'm glad all the talk of player eligibility is coming to an end," concluded the 20-year-old.

�Nigel Worthington did speak to me about coming back to Northern Ireland in the summer but I told him I was happy where I was.�
�I could get an Irish passport, having been a resident in Northern Ireland for over two years, but I still couldn�t play for the Republic."

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by RogerMilla

The players play for "me" by extension , if i and the rest of the supporters didnt turn up to support them or support the game at all levels then the honour of representing the island would be massively diminished. Still an honour but I think "I" bring something to the table.

Anyone from Northern Ireland from any community there who likes rugby but does not support the Irish Rugby team need to have a look at themselves. If Paisley and Mcguinness can wish them well then surely everyone can ?

this is being dragged off topic now , we can go into "other sports" if you want to go into the rugby teams inclusiveness more.

I was trying to clarify why (i assume) the previous poster didnt like you using the word 'us'. By saying the word 'us' it implied that the Northern Irish members of the Ireland team were playing for 'your' team. They arent, they are playing for their team.

i.e. their is no us and them, there is only one team.

This is not the same as the case in football.

Anyone from Northern Ireland from any community there who likes rugby but does not support the Irish Rugby team need to have a look at themselves. If Paisley and Mcguinness can wish them well then surely everyone can ?

Any other myopic statements you'd like to make?

Would you still support the Ireland Rugby Team if it:

a) Played in Belfast?
b) Played under the Union Jack?
c) Used GSTQ as its Anthem?
d) Designated any matches played in the Republic as away games?

(and i'm not trying to take this thread off topic, but i do find your above statement offensive, but sure, its just a bit of craic)

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

Absinthe, a post like this is so lazy it qualifies as trolling. If you do not understand the eligibility rules then read the thread, there are enough posts explaining exactly the eligibility situation.
If you do not want to do that, then I suggest stop putting an argument for why is he eligible? and why the annex criteria do not apply?
Both those matters have been dealt with emphatically.

As regards to Darron Gibson,
Derry 9/11/07
"I would say the decision is a good thing for young footballers in N. Ireland. In my experience, many players would prefer to play for the Republic so it's definitely a good thing for the FAI. Then again, there are players who will opt to play for Northern Ireland so, from a player's point of view, I think it's good to have a choice.

"From my own personal viewpoint, I'm really enjoying being part of the Republic of Ireland squad. It's been brilliant so far and I'm glad all the talk of player eligibility is coming to an end," concluded the 20-year-old.

“Nigel Worthington did speak to me about coming back to Northern Ireland in the summer but I told him I was happy where I was.”
“I could get an Irish passport, having been a resident in Northern Ireland for over two years, but I still couldn’t play for the Republic."

If you'd care to read what I did write, instead of what you would have liked to write, you'll notice the word 'should'. I am well aware of the eligibility rules.

Also, the post wasnt even directed at you, unless you also post as lopez.

But thanks for taking the time to add your valuable input.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Would you still support the Ireland Rugby Team if it:

a) Played in Belfast?
b) Played under the Union Jack?
c) Used GSTQ as its Anthem?
d) Designated any matches played in the Republic as away games?

(and i'm not trying to take this thread off topic, but i do find your above statement offensive, but sure, its just a bit of craic)

a ) certainly
b) No I wouldnt , but it wouldnt be the Irish team then so it would not be a choice i would have to make. I am happy with our Irish team flag by the way as seen at the world cup , its very nice.
c) Same as the union jack I am more than happy with Irelands call too.
d) that was sophistry on the part of the IRFU to get out of playing GSTQ in Belfast.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

(and i'm not trying to take this thread off topic, but i do find your above statement offensive, but sure, its just a bit of craic)

Dont for one minute think you have cornered the market on strong feelings as regards anthems and nationality.

**lopez** · 20/12/2007, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:

a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland

So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?

Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?

*purely as a hypothetical example.

In case you've been away, he is eligible through an Irish passport. Now Absinthe, this point was cleared up ages ago. Whatever further reasons he or anyone else has for choosing between two different teams, I'd suggest you write them a letter at their club.

Originally Posted by Absinthe

To attempt to clear up the Maik Taylor situation :-

1) The rules were different back then
2) He was not eligible for any country directly, as he was born on british soil in Germany. I admit that I dont know for sure, but I would be surprised if he qualifies/d for a German Passport..

'British soil in Germany': I like that one.

Originally Posted by Absinthe

...and i'm not trying to take this thread off topic, but i do find your above statement offensive, but sure, its just a bit of craic.

You get offended very easily, I see.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by lopez

You get offended very easily, I see.

not to mention the classic "bit of craic" throwaway designed to denigrate the opinions of someone of nationalistic bent.

Absinthe , we are from different places and have very different views. I'm not sorry that mine dont tally with yours and am more than happy to debate as long as you are not a WUM.

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by RogerMilla

b) No I wouldnt , but it wouldnt be the Irish team then so it would not be a choice i would have to make. I am happy with our Irish team flag by the way as seen at the world cup , its very nice.

Then why should Northern Irish people "look at themselves" if they find it impossible to support a team for this reason?

**lopez** · 20/12/2007, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Then why should Northern Irish people "look at themselves" if they find it impossible to support a team for this reason?

Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by lopez

a) In case you've been away, he is eligible through an Irish passport. Now Absinthe, this point was cleared up ages ago. Whatever further reasons he or anyone else has for choosing between two different teams, I'd suggest you write them a letter at their club.

b) 'British soil in Germany': I like that one.

c) You get offended very easily, I see.

a) I asked you why you think they should be eligible, I am well aware of the rules.

b) He was born on a British Army Barracks called Osnabruk (if memory serves me correctly). My understanding of this, is that it carries the same status as an Embassy, and is therefore regarded as British soil.
Feel free to come back with facts to the contrary?

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?

I found his myopic statement offensive enough to reply to it, even though it is taking the topic somewhat off thread.

Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.

**Absinthe** · 20/12/2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by lopez

Don't support us then! Set up your own team with your own anthems and your own easily offended players then! As long as any player from any part of Ireland (or their descendants) can continue playing for the current Irish team, good f*cking riddance to you.

Please start reading what Im posting, instead of what you think Im posting. I said people in Northern Ireland dont support the team, and also stated that I do.

So please feel free to get off your high horse anytime.

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Then why should Northern Irish people "look at themselves" if they find it impossible to support a team for this reason?

Because the Ireland Rugby team is on a progressive course to becoming more inclusive as evidenced by the anthem and flags and in that spirit anyone who is a rugby fan on the island who finds it impossible to support them should give them another go. Perhaps one day they will have a home game in Belfast with an agreed anthem. ( I would not be backing GSTQ down at paddypower though).

**RogerMilla** · 20/12/2007, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?
.

I didnt say that I said if it sang GSTQ it would no longer be the Irish rugby team.

**paul_oshea** · 20/12/2007, 10:50 AM

i now know how ill fill those hours after dinner on christmas day......

**Mr_Parker** · 20/12/2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

I think your coming round to our arguement nicely lopez. We are happy for the Grandmother rule to apply, the problem is with the rules set up the way they currently are, it is possible that:

a) Gibson* has never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
b) Gibsons parents have never set foot in the Republic of Ireland
c) Gibsons parents, parents have never set foot on the Republic of Ireland

So, if that was the case, why should he be eligible?

Because he wants to be?
Or , because someone in the IFA ****ed him off and he wants to prove a point?

*purely as a hypothetical example

Was this not previously cleared up here..?

:
To add to the confusion, it is my belief that having researched this matter thoroughly, they have no case in the Gibson matter.

Quite simply, he was a Republic of Ireland player before the rules were changed.

As he had not played in a competitive game at underage level for the North, he was perfectly entitled to make the change of allegiance when he moved to the Republic in October 2003.

On October 21 that year, in a small Austrian village called Br�hl, Gibson lined up for UEFA under-17 Championship qualifier alongside the likes of Darren Randolph, Darren O�Dea and Anthony Stokes.

So eight months before FIFA made their decree, Gibson was already a Republic of Ireland player. As far as I can see, that�s case closed and he will not be changing nations now.

http://www.metroeireann.com/index.ph...=602&Itemid=26

**lopez** · 20/12/2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Absinthe

a) I asked you why you think they should be eligible, I am well aware of the rules.

And I said because they hold Irish citizenship.

Originally Posted by Absinthe

b) He was born on a British Army Barracks called Osnabruk (if memory serves me correctly). My understanding of this, is that it carries the same status as an Embassy, and is therefore regarded as British soil.
Feel free to come back with facts to the contrary?

Maik Taylor would not be eligible to German citizenship even if he was born outside the barracks and his parents were not soliders because at the time of his birth, Maik Taylor needed a German parent to gain it. (GR: Once again I am directing one of your compatriots to the term Jus Sanguinnis).

But the point is what connection does he have with the O6C? You want us to stop people playing for us who 'have never stepped foot' in the 26C (highly unlikely) but want to continue playing Maik Taylor and co because they qualify through a British passport.

Originally Posted by Absinthe

c) The same poster admitted in his response that he wouldnt support the Ireland Rugby team it sang GSTQ. How is this any different to a Northern Irish person not supporting the Ireland Rugby Team for singing the Soldiers Song?

As he says, it is no longer an Irish team with that anthem. Neither is NI.

The Northern (unionist) rugby fan has the choice. Either put up with it or b*gger off. We have an inclusive rugby anthem now and rugby flag. EG doesn't want the Sash added to the SS as - in the usual mock offence that is common from ourweeminds - he's not an Orangeman. But he's happy - and you to - with a song about a German who has as much ancestral links to NI as that Maik Taylor. How about practicing what you preach and have the SS played before NI games. The IFA have miles to go to match the IRFU in its quest for inclusiveness with regards to the anthem - In fact, with the exception of Dublin, the SS has never been played at any of its games.

Originally Posted by Absinthe

I found his myopic statement offensive enough to reply to it, even though it is taking the topic somewhat off thread.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! If you find us so offensive then f*ck off! Is that offensive enough?

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Finally, its all just a bit of craic, refers to this myopic view, whereby when someone states something, its just a bit of banter, but when its turned around the other way, its anything but. Nothing political in it whatsoever.

Heaven forbid you say anything political!