Eligibility proposal

[Drumcondra 69er]

Simple (genuine) questions:

Are the FAI and IFA closer, or further apart, as a result of this decision?

How does that bode for good relations between the respective Associations?

Probably not but if the Celtic Cup comes about the two associations will have to work together and the extra revenue that it generates will soon outweigh any lingering resentment.

As Paddy Garcia says relations were going to take a hit regardless of whose side the decision fell into.

[Not Brazil]

Fair enough.

But would it be any different if the outcome was the opposite!

Probably not.

What we can be sure about is that the notion of a singular, so called, "united" Ireland team is a lot further away than it was 24 hours ago.

We have a situation of potential increased polarisation.

The IFA and FAI are now, de facto, fierce competitors.

A "united" Nationalist Ireland team is a far, far, cry from a truly "United" Ireland team.

As a football man first and foremost, I fear now for things like the Setanta Cup - something that promotes "unity" between football fans North and South of the border and requires the co-operation of both Associations.

[Not Brazil]

Very bitter.

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Probably not.

What we can be sure about is that the notion of a singular, so called, "united" Ireland team is a lot further away than it was 24 hours ago.

We have a situation of potential increased polarisation.

The IFA and FAI are now, de facto, fierce competitors.

A "united" Nationalist Ireland team is a far, far, cry from a truly "United" Ireland team.

As a football man first and foremost, I fear now for things like the Setanta Cup - something that promotes "unity" between football fans North and South of the border and requires the co-operation of both Associations.

Money talks in football these days. Any grievences can and will be put aside if it's profitable to do so. Setanta Cup falls into that category.

It's a decision that's been made, time to move on from it.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

Fair enough. I think the divisions were already there though or this situation wouldn't have arisen.

You beat me to the moving on bit!

[galwayhoop]

Far from it.

A tad sad at a decision which will further divide both comunities in Northern Ireland, but not bitter.

I've said all along that I'll live by FIFA's decision, and move on.

It's not the end of the world.

the decision doesn't change our situation one iota. in fact it only increases the IFA's potential player pool.

[eirebhoy]

I really don't believe it was ever about getting one over anyone. The arguements have been well rehersed, and we believe Gibson and his ilk are entitled to play for their country.

If there was an intervention seeking to "get one over their neighbour" it was was Worthington & Cos attempt to prevent Gibson continuing to play for us.

Understand your disappointment, but, if there is a feeling of resentment, I'd suggest this is in part related to the early celebrations last week, in some cases rammed down the throats of your neighbours.

I honestly don't. What has he to be disappointed for? Not Brazil has always said he only wants players that really want to play for Northern Ireland.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but I haven't a clue what you're talking about NB... How will it increase polarisation and divide both communities?

[Absinthe]

Why not get legal advice?
FIFA are sticking to article 15, the Annex conditions do not apply.
There is a question because Irish passport holders are not citizens of NI (if there is such a thing) so how can they play for NI according to article 15 ?
There is a legal question.
What FIFA are saying is that under FIFA's rules that 2 associations can make an agreement and FIFA rubberstamp it and add it in to the Articles as an addendum.

FIFA have signed up to the Court of Arbitration in Sport so any disputes end up there.

This would be my initial reaction, and is largely a post I put up on 'Our Wee Country'.

Reminder of the Fifa Statutes, which they have said still apply.

1. Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of his country. The Executive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibility for any Player whose nationality entitles him to represent more than one Association.

2. As a general rule, any Player who has already represented one Association (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category may not play an international match with another Association team.

3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

(i) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at "A" international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

(ii) Any Player who has already acquired eligibility to play for one Association but has another nationality imposed upon him by a government authority, is also entitled to change associations. This provision is not subject to any age limits.

4. Any Player who wishes to exercise this right to change Associations shall submit a written and substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. After submitting the request, the player is no longer qualified to play for his current Association's team. The Players' Status Committee shall decide on the request. The committee's decision may be brought before the Appeal Committee. The Regulations for the Status and Transfer of Players contain more detailed provisions.

5. Any Players who have already had their 21st birthday at the time of implementation of these provisions and who fulfil the requirements in par. 3 (a) are also entitled to submit such a request to change Associations. This entitlement will expire definitively twelve months after implementation of this provision.

Questions then must be:

Do they have to declare for the Republic before they are 21?

and

How are people in the RoI eligible to play for us? If it is via their Irish passport, then that makes everyone with a British or an Irish passport eligible for us. That being the case, why cant we pick English (born and bred) players? i.e. Why does the additional statute apply for British passport holders, but not Irish ones?

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories), I dont think its quite the Death Knell of the Northern Irish football team. I believe this decision will cost us 2-3 players a generation at most, and who knows, it may force the IFA into becoming a professional organisation, with regards to grass roots training.

I think this will a least run for a bit, while they clarify those two points. I honestly don't see how this 'compromise' 'fits' with their current rules.

[paul_oshea]

As far as I understand the proposal. The agreement is only for footballers born on the Island.
"Anybody born on the 32 County Island of Ireland can play for either Northern Ireland or the Republic Of Ireland"

Anybody who acquires Irish citizenship due to ancestory or residency can only play for the Republic.

I think you have it right, its all in the wording so to speak. And of course they are going to consult their legal department, it would be typical stupid FAI stuff if they didnt, there are always scenarios unthought of and thats where the legal department comes in.

[paul_oshea]

I have to say I really disagree with what you are saying. This was about allowing Irish players to choose to play for the country of their birth and they identify with, not about trying to completely destroy the northerners team.

I'm 100% in favour of an all-Ireland side but until that day comes we have to respect their right to their own team and to administer it in their own way - it is not our place to suggest playing games in the territory of their association or to start labelling them as a 'B' team. We cannot ask them to respect our rights, then turn around and disrespect theirs. The fact is that a large number of people do identify with their team, just as a large number do with ours. As is stands, as long as our players and fans in the north have the right to choose, I believe their players and fans should have that right too. Hopefully one day things will be different.

Great post shane.

[youngirish]

In fairness I can see why Not Brazil is pi**ed off (EalingGreen has probably hung himself with his ourweecountry scarf after getting dressed up in his best ourweecountry football kit preserved since 1982) but considering the situation on this island it was never going to be fair to the individual to prevent NI born nationalists from playing for the country they've supported and followed all their life. The individual's rights should in this case outweigh those of the football associations.

After saying that I don't believe it's fair for the FAI to actively pursue NI born players, they should leave them to it to make their own decisions. If they really want to play for the ROI then let the player come to us.

[eirebhoy]

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories)

We'll just have to rely on good old patriotism.

[Absinthe]

After saying that I don't believe it's fair for the FAI to actively pursue NI born players, they should leave them to it to make their own decisions.

I personally would accept that. But, unfortunately this would be unenforceable.

Lets make it a gentlemans agreement instead?

[paul_oshea]

I should also say that, while I strongly disagree with Fifas decision, (it is a farce to have 2 teams picking from EXACTLY the same territories), I dont think its quite the Death Knell of the Northern Irish football team. I believe this decision will cost us 2-3 players a generation at most, and who knows, it may force the IFA into becoming a professional organisation, with regards to grass roots training.

I feel, if this is enforced( or basically the Farmers Association agree ) that this will give the IFA the kick in the backside to get a new anthem, a new flag etc and this will then become an all round solution rather than a problem. NB, I guarantee you, as money and wealth etc takes over in NI, peoples religious and nationalistic beliefs will dilute. People will start to see this "new" team and what it adapts as their own. Agreeing with the above post in that at the very most 2 players that are actually in the ROI team a decade. Players from EL etc could well declare for NI, and why wouldn't they, but what I really believe is the disappointment of NB etc is that they don't want castoffs etc or a team that isn't born up north and feels BritIrish. IN the longer run, if our friends in the North can see past this, that this proposal actually brings change ( and capitalise on this ) in the North in more ways than one then the future for NI looks a lot brighter.

[cavan_fan]

This seems a bit of an odd decision and shows that no-one really understands the purpose of the 2 teams. Technically they are both supposed to represent territories but at the root the majority of the southern population and the Nationalist population of the North see the FAI side as representing all of Ireland. The Non Nationalist population of the North would agree with the technical understanding.

It makes no sense under either for people born in the south to play for Northern Ireland, this is just a way of appearing to compromise. I actually think some people will decie to go this route, if for example you were Joe Gamble or even Alan Lee wouldnt a regular appearance for NI be better than none for ROI.

I just wish FIFA had made a consistent decision. If for example they extended this so that the significant Russian minority in Ukraine can play for Russia will they allow all Russians to play for Ukraine.

[RogerMilla]

I can't see the IFA accepting this though , i presume they have a right to appeal ? also there deffo needs to be something sorted as regards the underage teams , hardly fair for fellas to pay for NI all the way up ( excpet for schoolboys of course) and then declare for us.

[EalingGreen]

Just as some in NI seem to have "jumped the gun" in believing the leaks that the IFA's case was going to be accepted by FIFA, I feel it may be equally premature for others to consider that the FAI has actually won its case (albeit by a somewhat contrived "compromise").

Having heard the two Associations' submissions, it doesn't look to me that FIFA have decided between the two. Rather, they look to be offering a "third way", in the hope that it will be acceptable to both Associations.

On which point, however well-intentioned FIFA may be in making this offer, it cannot be acceptable to the IFA, either in principle - we are not interested in selecting players from the ROI - or in practice - anyone who knows anything about the situation on the ground knows that the traffic is only likely to be one way.

I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody, or whether this is merely a (naive) attempt by them to remain on the fence, but I would be very disappointed indeed if the IFA caved in on this one.

As I've said many times before, if FIFA determines that the Rules as they stand favour the FAI, then so be it. However, rather than adjudicating, by this proposal FIFA actually seem to me to be trying to ignore the Rules, since no logical construction or interpretation can make an Irish citizen from the 26 counties, who has no family or residential connection with NI and no right to British citizenship, eligible to represent NI.

Bizarre.

[youngirish]

I don't know whether FIFA have been "got at" by somebody, or whether this is merely a (naive) attempt by them to remain on the fence, but I would be very disappointed indeed if the IFA caved in on this one.

Fox Mulder is at it again. It was cigarette smoking man.

[EalingGreen]

This seems a bit of an odd decision and shows that no-one really understands the purpose of the 2 teams. Technically they are both supposed to represent territories but at the root the majority of the southern population and the Nationalist population of the North see the FAI side as representing all of Ireland. The Non Nationalist population of the North would agree with the technical understanding.

It makes no sense under either for people born in the south to play for Northern Ireland, this is just a way of appearing to compromise. I actually think some people will decie to go this route, if for example you were Joe Gamble or even Alan Lee wouldnt a regular appearance for NI be better than none for ROI.

I just wish FIFA had made a consistent decision. If for example they extended this so that the significant Russian minority in Ukraine can play for Russia will they allow all Russians to play for Ukraine.

Thank you, Cavanman, for at least trying to understand the position of the IFA in all this - "Stand Up for the Ulstermen"?

However, I must take issue with the part of your post which I've emboldened. I know of no NI fan who is in the slightest bit interested in selecting players from the 26 counties who have no other connection with NI. It doesn't matter if they were better than our locally-born players. It wouldn't even matter if they turned out to be better than the ROI players in their respective positions. It wouldn't even matter if they were the next Paul McGrath and for some reason genuinely preferred to play for us rather than ROI. It wouldn't even matter if more Southerners wanted to play for us than Northerners wanted to play for ROI.

It is nothing personal, but we are no more interested in picking "your" players than we are e.g. in picking players from England, Scotland or Wales - all of whom might have arguably have, as UK citizens, more connection with NI.

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

[ifk101]

In the end, all we want is to pick the best 11 players who either were born in NI, have recent family from NI, or who have lived in NI. Thereafter, their politics/religion/anyotherbloodything should matter not one jot.

And you can still do so.