QuoteThat's all I asked as well, no answer was forthcoming.Originally Posted by lopez
They do compare - booing players for sectarian, political or religious reasons is wrong, in my view - whether they're on your own team or the other team. So all the incidents discussed are wrong, in my view.
Israeli players being booed.
That's all I asked as well, no answer was forthcoming.
oh come on. That's anti-semitic? Nothing to do with their keeper being a cheat?
You said the team only represented one community. I read that as meaning the team, ie. the players.
I accept this is not what you meant. I have noted that. And I have apologised. Case closed - surely?
No it wouldn't.
It would, and to say otherwise demonstrates a lack of understanding of the statute on a par with the IFA's. FIFA's legal dept obviously realise that to remove a citizens right to play for his association would leave them wide open to legal challenge.
Well, I was involved in a sporting organisation that wanted to encourage and promote more female involvement in the management of the sport (there was a high participation rate). It just went out of its way to recruit females to do jobs (chair sub-comittees etc.) until eventually about 40% on the elected executive were female.
FFS.
If you're a citizen of more than one country, you can't play for both. That's why Article 15 has been modified in several consequential set of rules.
There's no "right" for citizens to play for their country - e.g. FIFA has ruled that citizens who have changed nationality do not have the right to play for their new country unless they meet other criteria - e.g. There's no "right" to play for a country if you have already been capped by another country at "A" level.
So there's no reason why FIFA could not rule if it so wished that there was no "right" to play for a country if you weren't born there, lived there or have a parent or grandparent from there. (Indeed, it used to be the case, I think, that you had to be born or have a parent from somewhere to be eligible!)
There is no "legal challenge" open - FIFA has the right to make rules to govern the sport for which it is the governing body.
As I understand it from reading this site, some of the spectators amongst the ROI fans booed what they thought was a Rangers player. The fact that they were mistaken, and the majority of the other fans took the pis s doesn't alter that fact, nor make it any different from e.g. a minority of NI fans booing John Hartson because he played for Celtic. It's the same mindset.
As for the Israeli game, I would direct you to the thread on this very forum for evidence that at least some of the abuse was anti-semitic in nature. And even had it been solely political, that does not make it any more acceptable than e.g. NI fans meting out politically-inspired abuse at some of their opponents.
And before anyone else jumps down my throat, I am not engaging in "whataboutery", either, merely making the point that all crowds have their "********ed" element to them, with NI's currently being no worse than most, indeed arguably better than many. Therefore, those people who harp on about outdated examples, or claim that the present situation is an active discouragement for Nationalists to support or partake, are either ignorant, prejudiced or in denial (or some combination of all three).
As for the Anthem and flag, I have no doubt that there are e.g. Basques, Galicians and Catalans in Spain who do not consider that the Spanish National Flag, official language or Anthem adequately reflects their political aspirations either, but is anyone seriously suggesting that they should have their separate identity recognised in some way when they play for Spain? Or that the absence of such recognition prevents them from doing so?
Similarly, for those people who suggested that the Tricolour and Soldiers Song might also be played at NI matches, to represent Nationalists in the team/crowd, would they be happy to hear GSTQ played and the NI flag flown at FAI games in Dublin? After all, should the FAI be allowed to pick players from throughout the island, including Northern Unionists as well as Northern Nationalists, it would only be fair to reciprocate. Unless, of course, they are not interested in picking Northern Unionists, in which case, which of the two Irish teams would be discriminatory on political grounds:
The FAI team which only picks players from the 26 and Nationalists from the 6, or the IFA team which picks players from the 6 irrespective of whether they are Nationalist or Unionist?
What people need to recognise is that irrespective of whatever determination FIFA arrives at over player eligibility, there are two Irish football teams on the island. And the one I follow has every bit as much right to exist (as well as a considerably longer history) as the other one. Moreover, as the team of Northern Ireland, playing for or supporting it does not make one "more British" or "less Irish", rather it just means you're from Northern Ireland, and a football fan/player.
Which is why, even if FIFA should allow it as a quid pro quo for the FAI picking Northern-born players, imo the IFA should have absolutely no interest in picking players from the Republic who do not have the necessary connection with NI.
Last edited by EalingGreen; 13/11/2007 at 2:10 PM.
So you'd consider booing opponents the same as booing your own? Quite a little member of the PC brigade aren't you.
Israeli players being booed? That's what you know?And that's anti-semitism?
What are you? One of these over-sensitive Jews that if you criticise any bit of Israeli policy you are a self-hating Jew/anti-semite?
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
I'm genuinely surprised and disappointed that you are not politically correct, Lopez
Madre de dios...
And there's the rub. The whole point of the claim by the likes of D.Gibson is that they should be allowed to represent the ROI team because of their Nationality (i.e. country), not because of their Association. That is, one may be born with two or more Nationalities, but one cannot be born within the territory of more than one Association!
The Association which developed DG was the NISFA initially, then the IFA (Institute FC), and these were the bodies which governed and administered his early foorball career. Subsequently, it could be said to have been the English and Belgian FA's.
Frankly, until they first invited him to play for one of their teams, there is no way whatever that DG could claim that the FAI was "his" Association. Further, if FIFA decides that eligibility should be based solely on the concept of Nationality, irrespective of Member Association Territorial jurisdiction, it will need some way of reconciling the fact that there are presently 208(?) National Associations within its Membership, but only 186(?) "Nationalities", as defined by Membership of the UN.
It has been modified by way of annex to deal with players who were granted citizenship not by way of birth. FFS yourself, this has been discussed to death here, the annex does not applyFFS.
If you're a citizen of more than one country, you can't play for both. That's why Article 15 has been modified in several consequential set of rules.
I think not, Tuff. Given that three of the four 'GB' teams are against it.
I'm sure FIFA's post room appreciates your concern.
Agreed with ye re the Coulter dirge- but it would only be relevant (and giving you a good reason to moan) if it REPLACED your anthem, not just supplementing it.
[QUOTE=Tuff Paddy;813739]You demand that the NI team in some way recognises the sensibilities of NI Nationalists, but seem reluctant to concede the equal sensibilities of NI Unionists in the Ireland rugby team?
You reject the use of the NI flag for the NI football team, then decry the non-use of the (Irish Republic) Tricolour, (at away matches only, btw) for a team which is not representing the Irish Republic?
And you accuse the likes of me of possessing tunnel vision? Perhaps you can't comprehend the absurd inconsistency of your argument; I just hope that the reasonable/reasoning majority of your fellow ROI fans can, and aren't too embarrassed...
If they are beeing booed for sectarian/political reasons, yes. Do you think it is acceptable to boo players for sectarian/political reasons?
It depends on the motivation of those doing the booing.
I'd rather have both the Irish flag and NI flag flown at Irish rugby or cricket matches rather than any unofficial flag. Give me the Sash (GSTQ is the English anthem) and the Soldier's Song at rugby than the current dirge they play. And if you think it's ridiculous, how many anthems did South Africa play during the recent rugby World Cup? Three? Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika and the national anthem of the apartheid regime Die Stem in Afrikaans and English. Didn't stop them winning the competition. I'd be happy for the same arangement if there was an all-Ireland team without an all-Ireland state.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
Can I just point out that the Ireland rugby team is just that - the Ireland rugby team, i.e. all-Ireland. It's not an ROI team.
For the example being referred to teh players were being booed by their own fans for tacking the ball off Peter Madsen who was being cheered by the Irish fans every time he got possession, it was obviously tounge in cheek.
As for the Israel game, their players were being booed for diving, feigning injury and cheating in general, I don't consider anyone waving a Palestine flag anti semetic and I didn't hear any chants that made reference to Juadism is any way. I do see a place for politics in Sport. What was your opinion on the South Africa boycott during the apartheid regime as a matter of interest?
You raise an interesting point but surely if the player makes his choice before he is 21 ( it would be my view that this should be lowered) he should be entitled to choose his association if he is a citizen of that country. I think where we differ mostly is that I believe the players choice should outweigh any "dog in the manger" interpretation of the rules by the IFA
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks