Gavin Defends Setanta Decision

[dcfcsteve]

Can't see how anyone would think having Harps or Cobh in the Setanta Cup ahead of Derry is a bad thing.

Most First Division teams have very poor grounds and relatively little support. That's usually the reason why they're in the First Division in the first place - a relative lack of resources. Which almost always boils down to a fundamental lack of support.

Putting poorly supported sides with poor stadia into the Setanta would not help the competition, and would certainly not help our League's standing within it. Though no doubt the Dungannon Swifts of the world would be delighted, as they might finally have a chance of getting some results behind them.

[dcfcsteve]

I think FAI are trying to give the teams in North a chance to do well if there was a first division in the competition, they are hoping that Derry Lose and the winner of D1 goes through to give the Northern Teams a chance.

Well that's stunning foresight by the FAI, considering the decision was taken c. 10 months ago to have this play-off. Though I guess they just assumed City would win the League Cup yet again.....

I seriously doubt the FAI give a feck about giving IL teams a chance. Why the hell would they ?

So no need for the conspiracy theory. It's simple - the First Division play-off idea was a sop to give the weaker clubs in the league a crumb to feast on to gain their support for the FAI-EL merger. Nothing more.

[dcfcsteve]

Setanta Cup in 3 seasons time!!

A bit cynical there btid !

The EL fans have taken to the competition - there really is a buzz around qualifying for it.

The IL fans are less excited about it. Probably for a variety of reasons - such as the fact that the majority of their teams tend to struggle, and also because for IL supporters a trip to Drumahoe to play Institute feels like a struggle, so the prospect of Cobh or Cork terrifies them !

I would believe it more likely for Setanta to pull the plug on the copmpetition for their own reasons, rather than for the relative levels of support the games get.

[Sam_Heggy]

Most First Division teams have very poor grounds and relatively little support. That's usually the reason why they're in the First Division in the first place - a relative lack of resources. Which almost always boils down to a fundamental lack of support.

Putting poorly supported sides with poor stadia into the Setanta would not help the competition, and would certainly not help our League's standing within it. Though no doubt the Dungannon Swifts of the world would be delighted, as they might finally have a chance of getting some results behind them.

Do you honestly think Harps are poorly supported?

[dcfcsteve]

Do you honestly think Harps are poorly supported?

For 90+% of the seaosn - yes. Your fans only crawl out of the woodwork when they sniff the chance of winning something. Where were they all in April ? Or June ?? Or even most of the Summer ffs ??

Plus I said relatively. You certainly have less support than Derry, and if you qualified for Setanta would probably have the least support home and away of the 4 teams involved.

Anyone can magic up a crowd when you're in with a shout of a trophy. It's the rest of the season that shows what your support is really like.

[Réiteoir]

Old Mad Tom has the definitive answer on the whole qualification thing:

The FAI change, yet again, the rules of Setanta Cup qualification. As of now, the League Cup winners, Derry, must enter a play-off with the winners of the First Division providing the winners of the First Division wear white shirts, ie Dundalk. If not, then the second-placed team in the League Cup, Bohemians qualify to play with the runners-up of the First Division, Cobh Ramblers, providing the weather isn’t wet that day. Should it rain, Cork Academicals will battle it out with EMFA in a song contest, but only if Cork City fields 15 players in a team, in which case Longford Town will give up their FAI Cup Final place and slug out a two-way tie with Kilkenny City, who do not qualify because they bring in less than 300 fans per week. If so, Carlisle United will take on Jason Byrne and if the moon is in Uranus, as it was for the four lads in Derry, then John Delaney will distance himself from all football and instigate a new fusbal tournament to be completed by the fourth harvest moon of the year. Though, if x + y and y is June 25th, then straws will be drawn. Simple!

[Mr A]

Same old mantra from the less small clubs- everything must be weighted towards making the rich richer and widening the gap to the rest.

[Sam_Heggy]

For 90+% of the seaosn - yes. Your fans only crawl out of the woodwork when they sniff the chance of winning something. Where were they all in April ? Or June ?? Or even most of the Summer ffs ??

Plus I said relatively. You certainly have less support than Derry, and if you qualified for Setanta would probably have the least support home and away of the 4 teams involved.

Anyone can magic up a crowd when you're in with a shout of a trophy. It's the rest of the season that shows what your support is really like.

As ive said before, you have only had your big numbers of late (ie. since ye won the cup and came close in the league) the exact same as us. Success always brings in larger crowds. If we were in the setanta cup, we would have large crowds, im pretty sure of that.

Now what was Dodge saying about Harps - Derry arguments

[Lim till i die]

For 90+% of the seaosn - yes. Your fans only crawl out of the woodwork when they sniff the chance of winning something. Where were they all in April ? Or June ?? Or even most of the Summer ffs ??

Name me five Premier clubs that would have more support than Harps at their Setanta Cup games?

What do April and June have to do with the ability to draw out crowds for a one off occassion??

[jebus]

Plus I said relatively. You certainly have less support than Derry, and if you qualified for Setanta would probably have the least support home and away of the 4 teams involved.

If we're talking about relativity than Derry are a big steaming pile of **** in comparison to hundreds of clubs around the world support wise. Why you could even say that they are so ****ing **** that **** is too nice a ****ing word for the pieces of ****. Relatively speaking of course

[Student Mullet]

I think Harps should be let in because I prefer Harps to Derry.

[Lim till i die]

I think Harps should be let in because I prefer Harps to Derry.

Finally, someone says what we've all been thinking

[Stato]

If my memory serves me correctly when the Setanta Cup was first started it was specifically designed to give the three clubs entering in to the Champions League and UEFA Cup competitions that summer some extra competitive matches.

When they expanded it to four clubs last season the FAI decided to give the extra spot to the League Cup winners or, if the cup winners had gained entry by another method already, the third placed team in the Premier. If they want to experiment with other ways of allocating that fourth spot why not let them and see how it works out before we critisize it?

[dcfcsteve]

If we're talking about relativity than Derry are a big steaming pile of **** in comparison to hundreds of clubs around the world support wise. Why you could even say that they are so ****ing **** that **** is too nice a ****ing word for the pieces of ****. Relatively speaking of course

How's that Tourettes of yours coming along Jebus....?

[jebus]

How's that Tourettes of yours coming along Jebus....?

Obviously not all that ****ing well you ****face **** ****

[dcfcsteve]

Name me five Premier clubs that would have more support than Harps at their Setanta Cup games?

Why 5 clubs - i was talking about the top 3 in the country (i.e. the Setanta teams there on league position) ? And why not wait until Harps make it there to see how many they take to the Oval on a cold Tuesday evening ? They couldn't sell-out their home allocation for their recent weekend derby Cup game against City, so what makes you think they'll decsend upon Belfats and other destinations in vast hordes ?

What do April and June have to do with the ability to draw out crowds for a one off occassion??

Everything. Because the Setanat is not a one-off. It's at least a 6-off, over a period of 2 months, includign some fairly unglamorous opposition and long journeys. Even more if you progress. So there is no point describing it as some sort of one-off cup final.

[Dodge]

Cant wait to see if your tune changes if you get pipped for a Setanta spot!!

WTF?! How will it affect Pats? Get a grip man

[Lim till i die]

Why 5 clubs - i was talking about the top 3 in the country

Actually you were talking about Harps' fairweather support as if 'twere an affliction Derry was immune to but anyhoo....

If they get into the Setanta, Harps will get bigger home gates than Drgheda for example.

And why not wait until Harps make it there to see how many they take to the Oval on a cold Tuesday evening ? They couldn't sell-out their home allocation for their recent weekend derby Cup game against City, so what makes you think they'll decsend upon Belfats and other destinations in vast hordes ?

Home games are the issue here steve

Outside of Derry there was no "vast hordes" ( btw) descending on Belfast from the other clubs

Everything. Because the Setanat is not a one-off. It's at least a 6-off, over a period of 2 months, includign some fairly unglamorous opposition and long journeys.

You're kidding yourself if you think Harps wont pull in a crowd for home games against Linfield and Glentoran

After that who cares??

How many were at Cork v Dungannon Swifts for example??

Would their crowds be worse than the Northern teams crowds??

Even more if you progress.

And it's ludicrous to suggest they wouldn't draw a large crowd for a semi final/final.

So there is no point describing it as some sort of one-off cup final

You genuinely chose to take me literally there?? Really couldn't see what I was getting at?? Really??

[fbtn]

They couldn't sell-out their home allocation for their recent weekend derby Cup game against City, so what makes you think they'll decsend upon Belfats and other destinations in vast hordes ?

We sold around 4000 tickets to the home sections for that game. While admittedly not a sell-out, I would say that was one of the top home attendances in the whole competition.

For a change, could you please try and concentrate your efforts on being an authority on something that you actually know the facts about? it gets tiresome after a few thousand posts.

Oh, and I'll gladly take a refraction or whatever the fcuk they're called. You talk a serious amount of shíte.

[fbtn]

Actually you were talking about Harps' fairweather support as if 'twere an affliction Derry was immune to but anyhoo....

If they get into the Setanta, Harps will get bigger home gates than Drgheda for example.



Home games are the issue here steve

Outside of Derry there was no "vast hordes" ( btw) descending on Belfast from the other clubs



You're kidding yourself if you think Harps wont pull in a crowd for home games against Linfield and Glentoran

After that who cares??

How many were at Cork v Dungannon Swifts for example??

Would their crowds be worse than the Northern teams crowds??



And it's ludicrous to suggest they wouldn't draw a large crowd for a semi final/final.



You genuinely chose to take me literally there?? Really couldn't see what I was getting at?? Really??

Don't bother man. You'll get nowhere with. He knows it all and it will take half your day to read a thesis type waffle reply.