The Kilcoynes - failed dreamers or villains?

**The Man Himself** · 01/11/2007, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I was a Pats Cup semi in 1986 in waterford and there was about 3,000 at the game and it was split 50/50

thats a load of bull and you know it.
there was about 6000 at that with about 500 pats fans and in the second leg in richmond park there was around 5000 with 3000 from waterford. and not only did we win 3-1 that day, we also won the fight

also" in 1980 cup final v pats there was 22,000 at the match with 18,000 from waterford.
pats had some shyte support back then and still have.

**btid1** · 01/11/2007, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Man Himself

pats had some shyte support back then and still have.

I dont think a Waterford fan is in any position to be slagging Pats about the size of their support!!

**gspain** · 01/11/2007, 9:50 AM

Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

The Jesuits did in effect sell the ground ie they sold the lease to the Kilcoynes, and to say they were worried about there been uproar if " they sold the ground" is rubbish.

If they felt that way then when they were drawing up the terms of the sale of the lease to Kilcoyne they would of inserted a clause insisting that the land could only be used as a stadium for SRFC, that would of protected Rovers. However they had full knowledge of the fact that the terms of the lease sale granted the Kilcoynes the power to do what they wanted with the land (subject to PP) and they agreed to it...otherwise the Kilcoynes wouldn't of purchased the lease.... now the Jesuits of course did say afterwards that they asumed the Kilcoynes would continue to use the land as a stadium for Rovers and that is what they had expected to happen.... I don't buy that version, so IMO the Jesuits had no qualms about the participating in the demise of Rovers and their feigned shock at what the Kilcoynes did has always sickened me.

Still like to know where did all the money collected by KRAM go ??

I don't know how long the lease was for so that may have affected the sale price. They still sold something for �50,000 that was quickly sold for �1,000,000 albeit with PP which was very easy to get in those days.

The Jesuits probably didn't care too much about Rovers and their main concern would have been avoiding bad publicity by selling the ground themselves. However I believe they were conned and did not know the Kilcoyne's intended to sell the ground on. The could have insisted on a "sell on" clause or a "football only" clause.

My main point is that the blame lies fairly and squarely with the kilcoynes and blaming the Jesuits or KRAM or anybody else is deflecting attention from the real story.

**Dodge** · 01/11/2007, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Man Himself

thats a load of bull and you know it.
there was about 6000 at that with about 500 pats fans and in the second leg in richmond park there was around 5000 with 3000 from waterford.

Of course there was

Even given your figures you brought 3,000 to a cup semi but contributed to crowds of not less than 10,000 for league games.

Worst thing about this fecking league is the rose tinted view of the crowds in the "good ol' days"

**Calcio Jack** · 01/11/2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

I don't know how long the lease was for so that may have affected the sale price. They still sold something for �50,000 that was quickly sold for �1,000,000 albeit with PP which was very easy to get in those days.

The Jesuits probably didn't care too much about Rovers and their main concern would have been avoiding bad publicity by selling the ground themselves. However I believe they were conned and did not know the Kilcoyne's intended to sell the ground on. The could have insisted on a "sell on" clause or a "football only" clause.

My main point is that the blame lies fairly and squarely with the kilcoynes and blaming the Jesuits or KRAM or anybody else is deflecting attention from the real story.

The lease was for over 900 tears...thus by buying it the Kilcoynes knew they were in effect buying the land. The Jesuits who were represented by a firm of accountants were well informed and knew what they were doing and as I said the Kilcoynes wouldn't of bought the lease if it restricted them to using the land as a stadium... you said it yourself the Jesuits didn't care about Rovers and that's why as I said i've always been sickened by their public pretence that they were shocked by the Kilcoynes building houses... so the bottom line is that the Jesuits were the ones who destroyed Milltown because they could of stopped the Kilcoynes by (a) not selling the lease or (B) inserting a stadium only clause... and thus in no way can you say the Jesuits were conned

**John83** · 01/11/2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by btid1

I never questioned the fact that you [Stuttgart88] were hugely interested in and a dedicated follower of football my only question was as to how anyone could stop following a team they are supposed to be a fan of because of a change in home ground but maybe thats just my naivety?

Three words:
Milton Keynes Dons.

Anyone think Wimbledon fans were wrong?

**Macy** · 01/11/2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by John83

Three words:
Milton Keynes Dons.

Anyone think Wimbledon fans were wrong?

Five words: Plough Lane to Selhurst Park

**John83** · 01/11/2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Five words: Plough Lane to Selhurst Park

Touch�

**btid1** · 01/11/2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by John83

Three words:
Milton Keynes Dons.

Anyone think Wimbledon fans were wrong?

They were moving to a different town which was 2 hrs away.

Rovers moved within Dublin about 20 mins away!!!!

**The Man Himself** · 01/11/2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by btid1

I dont think a Waterford fan is in any position to be slagging Pats about the size of their support!!

and thats coming from a bohs fan who only gets a crowd when their top of the league or in the semis of the cup.
did you ever go to a bohs v ucd match or v longford match with your 800 true fans.
dont try make your team out to be someone big when its only like the rest of the clubs in league of ireland (including cork) sunshiners when your winning and a few hundred real supporters when your not doing so good.

**fergalr** · 01/11/2007, 12:53 PM

Kilcoyne got an easy ride on the program in contrast to other villains such as Cian O'Connor, Michelle Smith and C18.

**btid1** · 01/11/2007, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Man Himself

and thats coming from a bohs fan who only gets a crowd when their top of the league or in the semis of the cup.
did you ever go to a bohs v ucd match or v longford match with your 800 true fans.
dont try make your team out to be someone big when its only like the rest of the clubs in league of ireland (including cork) sunshiners when your winning and a few hundred real supporters when your not doing so good.

Thanks for making my point for me.There is no set of supporters in the EL who can slag another set for having small attendances but you seem to think you can...........who looks the gob****e now!!

**Mr A** · 01/11/2007, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by btid1

Thanks for making my point for me.There is no set of supporters in the EL who can slag another set for having small attendances but you seem to think you can...........who looks the g*ob****e now!!

Steve Staunton.

**DvB** · 01/11/2007, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Steve Staunton.

Ahhhhh, consistency in a world gone mad!!

Koh

**Boh_So_Good** · 01/11/2007, 1:49 PM

I recall once that the BBC sent over the cameras to cover the the 'Rovers Revolution' under Giles for Grandstand and the game was a farce. The score was something like 6-5 against Waterford and the ref decisions were bizzare. The whole segment became a "thick paddy" report and mocked Giles and Tracy for leaving West Brom and you could understand how they might of been embrrassed in front of their former playing peers watching in England seeing them played in such a paddywhackery match. One thing about the Giles revolution nobody mentions is that Rovers weren't that good! The SRFC of the 1980's were a far superior team than the one Giles had in the 70's.

I went to Milltown many times as a kid and I found it to be a fantastic place to to watch a match on Sunday. It did have a special atmosphere about it, but I was always beat up coming out by young rovers thugs as there was only one exit out on to MIlltown road and standing at the bus stops was dangerous too. I used to walk the long way down to Renelagh to avoid the little schooligans. But I still enjoyed going there.

One thing that struck me about Milltown was how pristene it was. The pitch was always beautiful, not a speck of dirt on the stands or terraces and all around the ground everything freshly painted and perfectly maintained. It was a class facility, no doubt.

One more thing, I worked in a social club were Louis Kilcoyne was a member and I always found him to be a very nice man - but this is 100% serious, there were a few other members who were like old time rovers supporters from the 1940's who refused to talk to him. I think the man suffered unfairly as he for a long time did his best for the club and eventually got fed up and no matter what anyone says SRFC supporters are the most fickle in the history of the league. They are all "devoted" as long as Rovers are in the latter stages of cup or league. They are just like GAA heads that way and always have been as long as I have been following LOI.

I personally am sick about hearing of Milltown in 2007. It's very old history now and the LOI today is a world away and still bringing the old saga up is like an old family problems which a few bitter relatives who really do not care have to mention to stir up ****e.

**The Man Himself** · 01/11/2007, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by btid1

Thanks for making my point for me.There is no set of supporters in the EL who can slag another set for having small attendances but you seem to think you can...........who looks the gob****e now!!

it was the pats fan who started it. and it was you how made a comment about waterford fans.
so bite me sack.

**khoop** · 01/11/2007, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Boh_So_Good

..... and no matter what anyone says SRFC supporters are the most fickle in the history of the league. They are all "devoted" as long as Rovers are in the latter stages of cup or league. They are just like GAA heads that way and always have been as long as I have been following LOI.

Says a Bohs fan.....

A more fickle group of fans you will not find ANYWHERE in the world.