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    Next Fixture List

    In 4 weeks time, the draw for World Cup 2010 is made, so how should we go about negotiating the fixture list for it, as it's important to play the right games at the right times.

    Here's a look at the last 4 qualifiers:

    WC 2002:
    In a 10-match group, the strategy was to play the top 2 seeds away early on, which we did, and brought home 2 vital away points in our first two games. We ended up with 4 of the first 5 away, and finished our away qualifying campaign in June. Leaving the home game with Holland until the second last game of the series, was a big gamble taken by Mick. Holland and Portugal's remaining games were against the minnows, and defeat in Lansdowne, would put us almost certainly out of the competition, but winning it guaranteed us a play-off place at worst. Only GD separated us from Portugal in the group. The scheduling of the play-off meant it was vital, that we took a healthy lead to Iran for the return leg. The 2-0 win was enough to put us into the finals.

    EC 2004:
    The fixture meeting was held in Dublin, and they were thrashed out in 45 minutes. The policy was to go to one of the heavyweights early on again, in order to catch the home side on a WC hangover, except nobody does that in Moscow. Instead, without Roy Keane, we were the ones to suffer the post-WC withdrawal symptoms, conceding 4 goals in a qualifier for the first time since the home defeat by Denmark in '85. With defeat following in our next match, new manager Kerr was given a blunt task: win in Georgia and Albania at Easter. Victory was achieved in Tbilisi, but the 0-0 draw in Albania was seen as 2 points dropped. With 4 points going into the next 3 games, all at home, 6 points were required from the June double header. The return against Albania, saw the FAI in their wisdom force the players, most of whom hadn't played a game for weeks beforehand, to play at 3.00pm on a balmy Saturday afternoon. The lethargic performance that followed was inevitable. We just about scraped through in injury time. With other teams taking points off each other, two wins from the last 2 games would put us in the finals, while a 2-0 home win over the Russians would guarantee us a play-off spot. The failure to do that, meant having to win in Switzerland was one miracle too much to achieve. The strategy had failed.

    WC 2006:
    Kerr chose a different strategy at the meeting in Dublin, which was not to play a double header home and away. So no convenient trips to Cyprus and Israel in the same week, but 6 months apart. However, he did borrow a McCarthy tactic, get the trips to the rivals over with as early as possible, but sweetened with a confidence booster at home to Cyprus. A marathon meeting, almost ended in collapse, and the prospect of the last two games being in Paris and Basle as a result. But with 95% of the targets achieved, and France and Switzerland at home in the last month, everything was going to plan until the 90th minute in Israel. The disasterous 2-0 throwaway lead in Lansdowne, and the defeat at home to France, meant that we hadn't taken advantage of the points won away from home. With France leading in Geneva, all we needed was a draw against the Swiss to qualify, but Switzerland levelled against France, and the tables were turned for the last match, as in they only needed a point to qualify. 93 frustrating minutes later, despite having home advantage, we couldn't score the goal that would have put us into the play-off, and we finished 4th. With the first and last games at home, you couldn't have asked for a better fixture list, and yet we still couldn't qualify, despite having the odds stacked in our favour for most of it.

    EC 2008:
    Again, the strategy was to go to one of the heavies away from home, to take advantage of their WC comedown, except we were in no position to do so in Germany, and played poorly. The agreement at the meeting in Frankfurt, was to play Germany and the Czechs in the first 3 games, and in 2 of the last 4, and twin the trips to the Czechs and Slovaks. With the boss not wanting to play in June, and finishing our campaign first, points had to be accumulated in advance. The throwaway of 2 points in Slovakia and the disaster in Cyprus, combined with defeats to ordinary German and Czech teams away, led to our elimination by September, and our worst qualifying campaign in 22 years.


    Personally, I think we should go for a rough model of the WC 2006 list, and we should return to playing qualifiers in June. But I would prefer one change from that system, that would be to play home and away double headers, as it's better to play a team when they're out of form, on a hangover, or have injuries, than when they're firing on all cylinders, with a full-strength squad, while from a fan point of view, it's the best and cheapest solution.

    You can't get everything you want, but a fixture list can give you a decisive advantage in a qualifying campaign, as demonstrated best by Germany in this one.

    If it was your call, how would you go about it?
    Last edited by mypost; 29/10/2007 at 4:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    In 4 weeks time, the draw for World Cup 2010 is made, so how should we go about negotiating the fixture list for it, as it's important to play the right games at the right times.

    Here's a look at the last 4 qualifiers:

    WC 2002:
    In a 10-match group, the strategy was to play the top 2 seeds away early on, which we did, and brought home 2 vital away points in our first two games. We ended up with 4 of the first 5 away, and finished our away qualifying campaign in June. Leaving the home game with Holland until the second last game of the series, was a big gamble taken by Mick. Holland and Portugal's remaining games were against the minnows, and defeat in Lansdowne, would put us almost certainly out of the competition, but winning it guaranteed us a play-off place at worst. Only GD separated us from Portugal in the group. The scheduling of the play-off meant it was vital, that we took a healthy lead to Iran for the return leg. The 2-0 win was enough to put us into the finals.

    EC 2004:
    The fixture meeting was held in Dublin, and they were thrashed out in 45 minutes. The policy was to go to one of the heavyweights early on again, in order to catch the home side on a WC hangover, except nobody does that in Moscow. Instead, without Roy Keane, we were the ones to suffer the post-WC withdrawal symptoms, conceding 4 goals in a qualifier for the first time since the home defeat by Denmark in '85. With defeat following in our next match, new manager Kerr was given a blunt task: win in Georgia and Albania at Easter. Victory was achieved in Tbilisi, but the 0-0 draw in Albania was seen as 2 points dropped. With 4 points going into the next 3 games, all at home, 6 points were required from the June double header. The return against Albania, saw the FAI in their wisdom force the players, most of whom hadn't played a game for weeks beforehand, to play at 3.00pm on a balmy Saturday afternoon. The lethargic performance that followed was inevitable. We just about scraped through in injury time. With other teams taking points off each other, two wins from the last 2 games would put us in the finals, while a 2-0 home win over the Russians would guarantee us a play-off spot. The failure to do that, meant having to win in Switzerland was one miracle too much to achieve. The strategy had failed.

    WC 2006:
    Kerr chose a different strategy at the meeting in Dublin, which was not to play a double header home and away. So no convenient trips to Cyprus and Israel in the same week, but 6 months apart. However, he did borrow a McCarthy tactic, get the trips to the rivals over with as early as possible, but sweetened with a confidence booster at home to Cyprus. A marathon meeting, almost ended in collapse, and the prospect of the last two games being in Paris and Basle as a result. But with 95% of the targets achieved, and France and Switzerland at home in the last month, everything was going to plan until the 90th minute in Israel. The disasterous 2-0 throwaway lead in Lansdowne, and the defeat at home to France, meant that we hadn't taken advantage of the points won away from home. With France leading in Geneva, all we needed was a draw against the Swiss to qualify, but Switzerland levelled against France, and the tables were turned for the last match, as in they only needed a point to qualify. 93 frustrating minutes later, despite having home advantage, we couldn't score the goal that would have put us into the play-off, and we finished 4th. With the first and last games at home, you couldn't have asked for a better fixture list, and yet we still couldn't qualify, despite having the odds stacked in our favour for most of it.

    EC 2008:
    Again, the strategy was to go to one of the heavies away from home, to take advantage of their WC comedown, except we were in no position to do so in Germany, and played poorly. The agreement at the meeting in Frankfurt, was to play Germany and the Czechs in the first 3 games, and in 2 of the last 4, and twin the trips to the Czechs and Slovaks. With the boss not wanting to play in June, and finishing our campaign first, points had to be accumulated in advance. The throwaway of 2 points in Slovakia and the disaster in Cyprus, combined with defeats to ordinary German and Czech teams away, led to our elimination by September, and our worst qualifying campaign in 22 years.


    Personally, I think we should go for a rough model of the WC 2006 list, and we should return to playing qualifiers in June. But I would prefer one change from that system, that would be to play home and away double headers, as it's better to play a team when they're out of form, on a hangover, or have injuries, than when they're firing on all cylinders, with a full-strength squad, while from a fan point of view, it's the best and cheapest solution.

    You can't get everything you want, but a fixture list can give you a decisive advantage in a qualifying campaign, as demonstrated best by Germany in this one.

    If it was your call, how would you go about it?
    I'd play one of the big two away first and the other third last if you can get it, with the last game at home to second seeds. I really can't see the second seed, whoever that may be, wanting to come to dublin on the last day, unless they are supremely confident that they can beat us. Maybe secondlast game at home to second seed with last game against a minnow, be it home or away. I think you need a crunch possible must win or must draw at home with the second seed at such stage that if you won that game, you'd have it in your own hands. heading away late to the second and third seeds (a la czech rep and slovaks in this series) is a bad bad idea, cos it leaves you with absolutely no comeback.

    on another note, the world cup seedings are decided on the basis of fifa rankings and ireland are currently 21st in europe. i dunno how hard it would be to hit 18th (but i's guess slim) but even defeat in cardiff is unlikely to hurt us that bad in world rankings.

    note: what could be a massive plus is last at home to the top seeds, not the second seeds, in that chances are it'll be a nothing game for them. certainly big games at home late on is a plus, but not to pair the two hardest away games.
    Superdave to the resc....

    Can you wait til I finish my pint? Or else...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave
    I'd play one of the big two away first and the other third last if you can get it, with the last game at home to second seeds. I really can't see the second seed, whoever that may be, wanting to come to dublin on the last day, unless they are supremely confident that they can beat us. Maybe secondlast game at home to second seed with last game against a minnow, be it home or away. I think you need a crunch possible must win or must draw at home with the second seed at such stage that if you won that game, you'd have it in your own hands. heading away late to the second and third seeds (a la czech rep and slovaks in this series) is a bad bad idea, cos it leaves you with absolutely no comeback.

    note: what could be a massive plus is last at home to the top seeds, not the second seeds, in that chances are it'll be a nothing game for them. certainly big games at home late on is a plus, but not to pair the two hardest away games.
    Well we had the second seeds at home last for the '06 campaign. It was great to have it at home, but we couldn't take advantage of it. To come to within a goal of a play-off spot was heart-breaking.

    I don't think we should play away to the heavies until we have a game or two on the board, preferably comfortable wins to get confidence up beforehand, and allow the new boss to settle in ok. Visiting the heavies first is a big gamble, one that worked for '02, but failed in '04 and '08. The Germans and the Czechs were way ahead of us by the time we got our first point in the last campaign. It could be a 5-team, 8-match group next time, and we can't afford to lose 2 games in it, if we hope to make the play-off or qualification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    Well we had the second seeds at home last for the '06 campaign. It was great to have it at home, but we couldn't take advantage of it. To come to within a goal of a play-off spot was heart-breaking.

    I don't think we should play away to the heavies until we have a game or two on the board, preferably comfortable wins to get confidence up beforehand, and allow the new boss to settle in ok. Visiting the heavies first is a big gamble, one that worked for '02, but failed in '04 and '08. The Germans and the Czechs were way ahead of us by the time we got our first point in the last campaign. It could be a 5-team, 8-match group next time, and we can't afford to lose 2 games in it, if we hope to make the play-off or qualification.
    in all likelihood it will be a six team group. 9 groups, 8 of six, one of 5. nine winners qualify + 8 best runners up into playoffs.
    Superdave to the resc....

    Can you wait til I finish my pint? Or else...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    But I would prefer one change from that system, that would be to play home and away double headers, as it's better to play a team when they're out of form, on a hangover, or have injuries, than when they're firing on all cylinders, with a full-strength squad,

    unfortunately it is impossible to predict these things!!!

    isn't it disheartening how many tournaments we have missed out on in recent years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    I'd

    note: what could be a massive plus is last at home to the top seeds, not the second seeds, in that chances are it'll be a nothing game for them. certainly big games at home late on is a plus, but not to pair the two hardest away games.
    Think this shows haw far we have regressed as a footballing nation. Before the group has even been decided we have resigned to the fact that we wont be contesting to win it.
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    I'd say try to get the away games against the two top seeds anytime in the first half of '09. That way our new manager will have time to work out his best team and let the players get used to his system before they play a big game. Then ideally we could play these two sides in the final few games of the campaign at home.

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    i think we should deffo start off with a home game to one of the big teams, as they will be knackered from euro 2008...then try to get an easy away game..we deffo have to be playing in the last round of games aswell...
    'How can I hate women, my Mums one!!!' Chris Finch

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    Quote Originally Posted by galwayhoop

    unfortunately it is impossible to predict these things!!!
    Well it is, but going on trends, we tend to get one of the teams that we faced in the previous campaign. For the current one, it was Cyprus, for the one before then, it was Switzerland.

    In about 3 weeks time, before the draw is made, we'll know 8 other teams that will be in our pot, and therefore we cannot face in the qualifiers. It should be easy to know some of them, (going by European rankings) before the draw is made. At the moment, we could draw Wales again, with England and Scotland in the same group.

    Personally, I'd prefer a wide variety of teams, and not "the Balkan group", that we got for the EC 2000 qualifiers.

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    The FAI are taking this draw very seriously. They even postponed the Cup Final because of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    Well it is, but going on trends, we tend to get one of the teams that we faced in the previous campaign. For the current one, it was Cyprus, for the one before then, it was Switzerland.
    Yes and we usually play well in March.
    "No regrets, none at all. My only regret is that we went out on penalties. That's my only regret. But no, no regrets." -Mick McCarthy

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    Quote Originally Posted by danonion View Post
    Yes and we usually play well in March.
    hehe .. I have to pinch myself sometimes to make me believe that the last year supporting the Irish team and the bizarre statements and actions of Team Stan really happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macdermesser View Post
    hehe .. I have to pinch myself sometimes to make me believe that the last year supporting the Irish team and the bizarre statements and actions of Team Stan really happened.
    Christ ya forgot that quote, I think the longer time passes on this campaign the more ridiculous its going to look. In fairness both the McCarthy and Kerr era had low points etc but nothing compares to the last 18 months or so. We really shouldve known what was ahead after that trouncing we got of Holland at the start of the campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elroy View Post
    We really shouldve known what was ahead after that trouncing we got of Holland at the start of the campaign.
    Pedantism: it was before the start of the campaign.

    Chile & Holland were shockers alright but we could tentatively cling to the Sweden game as a positive. Hindsight is a great thing. Could any of us have foreseen a 25 game unbeaten run and WC qualification after back-to-back home defeats to Scotland & Greece? Or have I got my dates mixed up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by macdermesser
    hehe .. I have to pinch myself sometimes to make me believe that the last year supporting the Irish team and the bizarre statements and actions of Team Stan really happened.
    Apparantly, the effects of the Christmas English fixture pile-up, was blamed for the "performance" in Serraville.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    Apparantly, the effects of the Christmas English fixture pile-up, was blamed for the "performance" in Serraville.
    that, and the fact san marino are going to prove a handful as the group goes on.

    wales 3-0 san marino
    germany 6-0 san marino
    san marino 0-1 cyprus
    san marino 0-3 czech rep
    cyprus 3-0 san marino
    slovakia 7-0 san marino
    san marino 1-2 wales

    so that's one goal scored, 25 conceded and seven straight defeats. definitely handful material.
    Superdave to the resc....

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    Regardless of who we get I think we should try and get a good start by playing lesser teams first and trying to have a "Cup Final" style finish at home to a bigger team. I think we need to build momentum and a feelgood factor and we also need to give the younger fringe players as long as possible to get up to the standard.

    We were out of this campaign after the first 3 games for all intents and purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Regardless of who we get I think we should try and get a good start by playing lesser teams first and trying to have a "Cup Final" style finish at home to a bigger team. I think we need to build momentum and a feelgood factor and we also need to give the younger fringe players as long as possible to get up to the standard.

    We were out of this campaign after the first 3 games for all intents and purposes.
    not a bad idea at all.

    in the recent campaigns we have gone after the big guns early. why not get some of the smaller teams first and build up a head of steam. especially as it will involve a new manager and him familarising himself with the squad!! why not get points on the board and let the top seeds face each other if they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galwayhoop View Post
    not a bad idea at all.

    in the recent campaigns we have gone after the big guns early. why not get some of the smaller teams first and build up a head of steam. especially as it will involve a new manager and him familarising himself with the squad!! why not get points on the board and let the top seeds face each other if they want.
    yes. ever since the 02 campaign there has been this idea that to play the big guns away early is a good thing, but that was only cos of our luck in those two particular games. for a new manager and relatively inexperienced squad, we need to space those games out. assuming a six team group (there are 8 of six and one of five), we'd probably be looking to play the first seeds at home early on and the second seeds at home last day, with the away trips in between, but not too close together.

    the one thing we really need, the thing that propelled us to the 2002 world cup, is to beat every team below us home and away. that would be 18 points, and is 80 % of the work towards at least making a playoff place.
    Superdave to the resc....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Regardless of who we get I think we should try and get a good start by playing lesser teams first and trying to have a "Cup Final" style finish at home to a bigger team. I think we need to build momentum and a feelgood factor and we also need to give the younger fringe players as long as possible to get up to the standard.

    We were out of this campaign after the first 3 games for all intents and purposes.
    I would have said we were out of this campaign after 2 games, 0 points from 6 and even though both games were away we still had to play the second seeds twice.
    Honest! I am not a secret Tim nor a closet Sham - I really am a Seagull.

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