Left Wing Clubs?

**Junior** · 15/12/2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Why maybe I'm wrong about this whole thing........

Oh right. Fair Enough.

My mistake.

How old are you, 12? I just pointed out a couple of facts related to the discussion. As I said I wasnt saying Celtic (or its fans) were or werent a Left Wing club.

And just in case the above statement is a little tricky

**ASR27** · 16/12/2007, 10:07 AM

well someone could turn this thread into a "Fesis"

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH7Aix_SSN8

**ASR27** · 16/12/2007, 10:32 AM

Livorno's Curva singing Bella Ciao..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsutOp63SU&NR=1

..and a documentary clip re the communist element of Livorno's support...its in Italian but interesting even if you can't understand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqbgx...eature=related

**Lim till i die** · 16/12/2007, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Junior

How old are you, 12?

21.

I just pointed out a couple of facts related to the discussion.

I know.

As I said I wasnt saying Celtic (or its fans) were or werent a Left Wing club.

I know.

And just in case the above statement is a little tricky

I find it a bit pointless

I mean you're getting pi$$y because I disagree with an opinion you don't actually hold.............

What old are you, 11?

**Junior** · 16/12/2007, 8:26 PM

I was getting "pi$$y" as you put it, over the pointless sarcastic smilies in relation to my post.

I was simply pointing out that the 97% 'for' vote for Reid was not quite a case of overwhelming support by the supporters for his appointment, more a case of 2 or 3 key individuals on the Celtic board who own the vast majority of those votes and were nominating Reid, therefore it was academic.

33 for the record....sadly.

**Sandro** · 16/12/2007, 9:52 PM

Very interesting thread, but lots of wrong information as far as Italian clubs are concerned (most of all comments about AS Roma or Milan AC supporters, I'd say). Still it's interesting to read "how they see us" and what kind of information reach the foreign countries. The attached map might be of some help to understand the colours of Italian supporters [looks bigger here http://www.tuttiallostadio.it/tutti%...io/SQUADRE.JPG]. It's a sensitive subject and I won't go into dangerous details, after all such words as socialist, fascist or even left and right have a different meaning in each country. Media, then, play a key role in giving biased information. In the last few years there's been a very strong turn to the right wing throughout the country, that's a fact (and in a country like Italy is no surprise), the only real extreme leftist ultras today being Livorno's (more and more blamed for their shocking behaviour and Lucarelli regarded as the king of hypocrisy because of his hunger for money, but I'm from Pisa

so don't expect understanding from me). Once the red areas were roughly in Tuscany and Emilia Romagna (both with lot of exceptions) but things have definitly changed. Most of the south is "black", I'd say, with peaks mainly in Rome and Sicily. It goes without saying that politics in football are a true disease and I'd prefer to see more city flags rather then political symbols at the grounds (Pisa supporters have almost replaced the black-blue colours with the old white/red Republic of Pisa flags). Hysterical restrictions from goverment then made the rest (I wonder if the minister who made the celtic cross forbidden is aware of the meaning of such an ancient symbol!). The truth is that Italian football has bigger problems, with violence and corruption being real emergencies. Last year Italy won the World Cup but I can hardly mention the starting XI whereas I won't miss a name among those who lift the cup in Madrid 25 years ago!

**ASR27** · 17/12/2007, 9:06 AM

Great post Sandro! It is difficult to keep up when fan movements are so fluid. for instance as you mention Milan and Roma, the fedayn and Fossa dei Leoni (leftist elements) that are represented on your attachment are no longer in existence - so then there is definitely a more rightwing element if not in fact a majority in both curva sud romana & milano.

good stuff. if we could find similar maps for the rest of football it would make this thread worthwhile, it certainly provokes interest/argument.

**Sandro** · 17/12/2007, 9:25 AM

Even the map is a bit out of date in my opinion, I'm surprised about so much concern and I'd love to give more information even if my knowledge of the subject is not deep.

**Bottle of Tonic** · 18/12/2007, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Junior

I was getting "pi$$y" as you put it, over the pointless sarcastic smilies in relation to my post.

I was simply pointing out that the 97% 'for' vote for Reid was not quite a case of overwhelming support by the supporters for his appointment, more a case of 2 or 3 key individuals on the Celtic board who own the vast majority of those votes and were nominating Reid, therefore it was academic.

33 for the record....sadly.

No point in arguing with him. I'd have him on ignore only he posts in so many threads I wouldn't know whats going on.

I read a report of the AGM written by a shareholder (where Reid got the 97%) in Celtic fanzine More than 90 minutes. He said when it came to the actual vote many people appeared to abstain (not sure how the voting system works) and he inferred that these people would also have been anti-Reid and there was a more anti-Reid feeling at the AGM than a 97% approval would suggest. These people (the shareholders attending an AGM) would also be far removed for the ordinary season ticket holding fan at street level.

Any fanzine or fansite i have read is anti-Reid or at most says nothing positive about the appointment.

**Lim till i die** · 18/12/2007, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bottle of Tonic

No point in arguing with him. I'd have him on ignore only he posts in so many threads I wouldn't know whats going on

Most be awful for you.

I read a report of the AGM written by a shareholder (where Reid got the 97%) in Celtic fanzine More than 90 minutes. He said when it came to the actual vote many people appeared to abstain

Genuine Question

Why not vote against??

he inferred

M'Kay..........

that these people would also have been anti-Reid

Genuine Question

Why not vote against??

Any fanzine or fansite i have read is anti-Reid or at most says nothing positive about the appointment

Can we expect massive fan protests at games until he's removed??

**Junior** · 18/12/2007, 10:17 PM

Massives protests? No, I dont think so. For the time being it will probably be the continued low profile type stuff, more a reflection of the apathy in modern day society than something reflecting a Celtic support that shares it political views with Reid or are happy with his appointment.

Some stats on the vote

For:
Holders Voting 1,043
Votes 45,763,294 Avg Votes per Holder 43,877
% Votes Cast 97.85%

Against:
Holders Voting 295
Votes 369,620 Avg Votes per Holder 1,253
% Votes Cast 0.79%

I dont have the information on the people who voted 'for' but if you look at the 'average votes per holder' stats I think you can see it isnt your average fan on the street but more likely corporate institutions and the key shareholders.

The Celtic Trust for example would make up part of the 295 'Against' voters . This is an umbrella organisation for small supporter shareholders looking for fan representation on the board amongst other things and who are on record as being Anti Reid.

As mentioned in the post above a quick google of "Reid" and "Celtic" will highlight numerous fanzines with Anti Reid feelings and give details of leafleting, protests etc.. The reality is most of its all talk with little action and the action that does happen will have little or no impact.

This isnt a criticism, Im a small shareholder and I didnt vote either way so am completely guilty of the apathy mentioned above.