Robbed again

[pete]

I love to see Bertie rattled as he can get easily frustrated when he does not like the questions being asked. Good piece in the IT today basically implying that Bertie saying Consultants get well paid (more than Bertie) so quality performance expected... What do we get for Berties 40k pay rise?

[jebus]

I love to see Bertie rattled as he can get easily frustrated when he does not like the questions being asked. Good piece in the IT today basically implying that Bertie saying Consultants get well paid (more than Bertie) so quality performance expected... What do we get for Berties 40k pay rise?

Saw that in the mornings news alright. Love the way he constantly turns FF criticism onto someone else, and their pay, and then refuses to answer questions on his own pay packet.

I've thought this over and honestly I now consider anyone who voted for Fianna Fail as a disgrace to this country and the last 100 year's of it's history in particular. I've come to this conclusion as I realise more and more that I couldn't be a voter for this present government, who have gone back to the British rule way of robbing the majority Irish worker to pay for the minority in power and their friend's lifestyle, and look my grandfather, who fought in the Irish war of independence, square in the eye. This government, and the people who voted for them are a disgrace to his and his fellow fighter's name in my book

[pete]

Saw that in the mornings news alright. Love the way he constantly turns FF criticism onto someone else, and their pay, and then refuses to answer questions on his own pay packet.

The government has now also become the opposition, created everything that is good & responsible for nothing that is bad.

As the IT summed Bertie up - Health workers paid to do a job, HSE paid to manage the Health workers & the government provides the funding.
Of course the tax payer provides the funds so what does the government do? :

[kingdom hoop]

Kind of off topic, but there was a funny little Freudian slip in the Dáil yesterday when Bertie was getting defensive about the personal vitriol aimed at him over the HSE. He said words to the effect 'but how can you expect me to be responsible for every HSE worker in the 22, 26, counties?' I laughed anyway.

[mypost]

Loved Gilmore's reply.

Meanwhile, the next Taoiseach is busy warning us again.

Any chance we can have that 25k back, mate??

[jebus]

How the Christ does Harney still have a job? Can anyone answer me that? The level of achievement she has brought to her post is the equivalent of me dragging my boss' 5 year old daughter into work, cutting her throat on his desk, and setting fire to the building, whilst running naked around the office singing Cotton Eye Joe

[Ringo]

How the Christ does Harney still have a job? Can anyone answer me that? The level of achievement she has brought to her post is the equivalent of me dragging my boss' 5 year old daughter into work, cutting her throat on his desk, and setting fire to the building, whilst running naked around the office singing Cotton Eye Joe

No one else wanted it or wants it now. In fairness to her she's trying to change things for the better. The problem is the system, too many managers and waste. no matter how much money is thrown at the problem, it doesn't make a difference to the people on trollies at ground level.

[Macy]

In fairness to her she's trying to change things for the better.

Privatisation is what she's about, not changing things for the better. Give land to private companies for co located hospitals, give them tax breaks to build them, provide consultants to carry out operations, run down existing public services to provide private patients via the ntpf.

The problem is the system, too many managers and waste. no matter how much money is thrown at the problem, it doesn't make a difference to the people on trollies at ground level.

She put in place the system that has multiplied the numbers of managers in the system. She put in place the HSE with all it's levels of management, whilst failing to deal with the management around the country in the health boards. The current system that is worse than previous one, yet she seems to get credit!?! All she's done is attempt to wash her hands of any responsibility.

[Lionel Ritchie]

How the Christ does Harney still have a job? Can anyone answer me that?

Because it allows FF outsource a no-win portfolio and allows them and their supporters "plausable deniability" when it comes to accepting responsibility for the ramifications. We've seen it demonstrated earlier in this very thread.

Similarily, if and when the Greens do something remotely dynamic with their Environment portfolio, FF can blame the Greens when the hauliers, farmers, IBEC and whoever else come clamouring ...and FFs supporters will swallow it whole.

On Mary Harney again, I happen to disagree with her vision but I do think she's a visionary and I don't think she's taking the path she's taken because 1. she likes to see public patients on trolleys or 2. because she's on the make as I suspect some of her colleagues in Government are.

[GavinZac]

Still though it is hilarious that they vote themselves whether they get a pay rise or not!!! Imagine coming into work one day to vote on giving yourself a pay-rise, picture the face on the boss!

Its probably been said, but the decision was based on an independent review, not simply voting themselves more money. for the effects of people voting themselves more money, see boardrooms across the country where people are voting themselves to have twice the salary of the taoiseach.

[GavinZac]

Saw that in the mornings news alright. Love the way he constantly turns FF criticism onto someone else, and their pay, and then refuses to answer questions on his own pay packet.

I've thought this over and honestly I now consider anyone who voted for Fianna Fail as a disgrace to this country and the last 100 year's of it's history in particular. I've come to this conclusion as I realise more and more that I couldn't be a voter for this present government, who have gone back to the British rule way of robbing the majority Irish worker to pay for the minority in power and their friend's lifestyle, and look my grandfather, who fought in the Irish war of independence, square in the eye. This government, and the people who voted for them are a disgrace to his and his fellow fighter's name in my book

ffs arent you a right hero. do you seriously think things would be any different if fine gael were in power? they would have turned down this pay rise en masse would they?

[GavinZac]

Of course the tax payer provides the funds so what does the government do? :

Im almost certain that there are other things for the government to do than simply to collect taxes and give them to the HSE.

at this point its getting silly, i cant tell if you're joking or if you're advocating anarchy

[Macy]

1. she likes to see public patients on trolleys or 2. because she's on the make as I suspect some of her colleagues in Government are.

Disagree...
1) it suits her "vision" of Private healthcare to run down the public health system and make people desperate for an(y) alternative.
2) We'll wait and see where she goes after she leaves office. Afterall she's already quite literally in bed with IBEC, and look at where their chairperson ended up after booted out of the OPW. The Party against vested interests indeed...

[pete]

Im almost certain that there are other things for the government to do than simply to collect taxes and give them to the HSE.

In relation to health I would really like to know what they are as the Taoiseach himself has said the HSE runs the service & not the government.

In Transport the government seem to have passed the buck to the RSA so no responsibility either.

With regards the pay rises - the government set up this "Independent" Body & gave it the terms of reference.

is there anything left that the government sees itself as responsible for?

[Ringo]

In relation to health I would really like to know what they are as the Taoiseach himself has said the HSE runs the service & not the government.

In Transport the government seem to have passed the buck to the RSA so no responsibility either.

With regards the pay rises - the government set up this "Independent" Body & gave it the terms of reference.

is there anything left that the government sees itself as responsible for?

Governments/ministers come & go. You have to have organisations with experts in their field running it. No minister really runs his department, the civil servants do. Mary Harney choose the health ministry, no one forced her to take it. likewise, the green choose their ministries. The greens are finding out, its easy to be in oppisition & snipe, but its much harder to have to make real decisions, in the real world.

[pete]

No minister really runs his department...

So we pay them 250k+ to do what exactly...? I accept the HSE runs the service on day to day basis but the Minister has to make executive decisions.

BTW FF have been in government for 10 consecutive years - if the Taoiseach chooses to keep changing Ministers thats his problem.

[Dodge]

Its probably been said, but the decision was based on an independent review, not simply voting themselves more money

They have to vote to accept or refuse it. Ridiculous for them to tell other pubic servants to curb wage demands if they vote to accept their 12-15% rise.

And boardrooms raising their own wages are usually performance related (as are lower level civil servants). Their is no performance indicators for governement (in terms of wages)

[Macy]

They have to vote to accept or refuse it. Ridiculous for them to tell other pubic sevants to gurb wage demands if they vote to accept their 12-15% rise

And to repeat with no clauses. Even cost of living national wage agreement increases for the rest of the Public Service come with caveats about modernisation and change in work practices*.

*whether that's been properly followed through or not is a different argument - if it hasn't it doesn't exactly add to the case for increases for their bosses - i.e. the Ministers in charge!

[Student Mullet]

Privatisation is what she's about, not changing things for the better. Give land to private companies for co located hospitals, give them tax breaks to build them, provide consultants to carry out operations, run down existing public services to provide private patients via the ntpf.

I don't agree with this at all. She's trying to build a lot of public services like the cancer centres and a new children's hospital and she's facing just as much opposition there as anywhere else.

[jebus]

ffs arent you a right hero. do you seriously think things would be any different if fine gael were in power? they would have turned down this pay rise en masse would they?

Ah this little chestnut of a point. We don't know if they would or they wouldn't have. When voting you are essentially voting as to whether the outgoing government have done their job well and to the nation's satisfaction. It was obvious they hadn't and so should have been shown the door, but then again Irish people tend not to see the obvious do they? I mean you still think you're right most of the time don't you?