QuoteThose two had decent games last night and have been playing well over the last month or so. Jarosik especially has came on to a much better game of late.Originally Posted by shanman2
Pity Hartley and Jarosik weren't injured. It might have helped the cause if they were. Hartley is brutal and don't get me started on Jarosik.
Barca 2 vs manchester 0
Those two had decent games last night and have been playing well over the last month or so. Jarosik especially has came on to a much better game of late.
Yer hame team is yer ain team!
Dunphy and Giles exposed again. Benoit Cheyrou that plays for Marseille is NOT Bruno Cheyrou that once played for Liverpool, he is in fact a younger brother. He is not a reject as Dunphy so politely put it. He is a rather handy player.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
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Gerets did not think much of him as he took him off pretty quickly
In Trap we trust
stupid marsielle, had them in an accumulator taught the odds at 11/4 were great all things considered!!
There's the right way, the wrong way.... and the Max Power way!! :-D
It was the same old, same old. Dunphy expected a Marseille win and as usual, when his prediction doesn't come to pass, it's blame the opposition for being poor. Time and time again and the tedious moaning about the rotation system. They slammed Benitez for taking Gerrard off against Reading to rest him. Who came out of the blocks like a shot: Gerrard? Dunphy scoffed (jeered) at Kewell before the game. He had two assists and also defended well.
Liverpool now not only have to win, but they have to win with styleI think they didn't let Marseille play and powered them out of the game in the 1st 20 minutes. No credit for that. Liverpool were much the fresher team. Rotation ??
Anyway, any team that plays in jerseys that colour don't deserve to win
Ray and George (who didn't realise a peno had been given and seemed to miss most of what was going on) were on a high that 6 British teams (if Rangers get through) were in to the knock out stage.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Also according to the lads a British team will win it , cos Barca and Real are poor at the back , and there's nothing to fear from Inter and MilanIt was the same old, same old. Dunphy expected a Marseille win and as usual, when his prediction doesn't come to pass, it's blame the opposition for being poor. Time and time again and the tedious moaning about the rotation system. They slammed Benitez for taking Gerrard off against Reading to rest him. Who came out of the blocks like a shot: Gerrard? Dunphy scoffed (jeered) at Kewell before the game. He had two assists and also defended well.
Liverpool now not only have to win, but they have to win with style
Anyway, any team that plays in jerseys that colour don't deserve to win
Ray and George (who didn't realise a peno had been given and seemed to miss most of what was going on) were on a high that 6 British teams (if Rangers get through) were in to the knock out stage.
Dunphy predicted early on that 3 out of the 4 teams in the semis would be from England. You can guess which team he thought would be missing.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
O-Lim-Pack Lyon.
You gotta love Peter Collins.
Extratime.ie
Yo te quiero, mi querida. Sin tus besos, yo soy nada.
Abri o portão de ouro, da maquina do tempo.
Mi mamá me hizo guapo, listo y antimadridista.
At least he can make a decent stab at pronouncing Besiktas unlike laughing Bill.
Enjoyable game last night between Rangers and Lyon. Rangers battled hard but the difference between the teams was Karim Benzema. Looked a class act. I expect to see him playing in the Premiership soon.
The Man U (violence apart) and Arsenal games were non-events as predicted elsewhere.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
"or Spain or Italy" as Brady added. Dunphy said 2 years ago Barcelona wouldn't win it as their defence was terrible and they've bolstered it considerably since then. He, and many pundits, simply don't understand that a team would rather win 2-1 than 1-0. Its beyond comprehension that Ronaldinho and Messi are instructed NOT to track back and that Iniesta, Deco and xavi are given free reign to move about midfield.
Laughable they spend hour deriding the premiership and then predict the winner will be either Chelsea/Man U
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I think they slag off the quality of the Premiership outside of the Top 4. But then I wonder what the strength of the teams outside the Top 4 in Italy, Spain and France is like? I don't know and I suspect Messrs Dunphy, Giles and Brady know even less.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
This was posted on a Celtic mailing list. I think it's brilliant, not sure if it should be here or in the SPL discussion thread though.
On the way to the match last Saturday I heard Strachan on radio again state when questioned on poor CL Away form - "We'll have to have a look at that" in what seemed to me to be a somewhat nonchalant manner.
I ask you. After 8 seasons of this Away debacle & 2 wins in 29 attempts against serious opposition on Continental soil & a "look" is on the agenda?
Well, when Strachan & his minions have their "look", here are some facts & home truths which might assist them in the task & help to concentrate their minds.
I don't think any of them have an understanding of how close we walk to the edge of the edge. All it will take is for 1 Group stage team to fluke a draw at Parkhead (it will happen as surely as the Sun rises in the East - St Mirren last Saturday) & then we will be truly rooted if we continue Away as we have done.
This seasons Group stage was completed last night. Every one of us is delighted to be in the last 16 with all the attendant press cheers but beneath all that lurks the real story.
In the 8 seasons of this century 77 teams have participated in the 1st CL Group stage.
A league table comprising the 77 Teams on Home results alone shows Celtic in 6th position. Many teams have played differing numbers of games - the measure is points won/points possible as a %. An Away League table shows Celtic in 72nd position - down with the no-hopers.
Overall (Home & Away) Celtic rank 33rd.
Because many of the clubs participated in only 1 or 2 campaigns, the tables can be & are skewed by this eg Seville & Sturm Graz are the only 2 teams with 100% Home records but each has only 1 CL campaign.
A more relevant assessment in my view is to include only those teams who have played in at least 50% of the 8 seasons ie the regular participants with a minimum of 24 H/A games each.
32 teams fall into this category.
Because the overall tone of this is negative it is only fair to give great credit for an absolutely outstanding Home performance by Celtic who are a Pot 3 team more often than not. A Home League table shows Celtic in 4th position. Here's the top 10 -
A table calculated as above favours Teams who have played fewer games as it becomes more difficult for top achievers to maintain form over a longer period. Adjusting for this places Celtic in 6th pos. However, let's ignore this & move on as per the original. Either way illustrates the point being madeCode:P W D L F A GD Pt % Team 18 16 1 1 41 11 30 49 90.7% Juventus 24 21 2 1 66 16 50 65 90.3% Man Utd 21 18 2 1 56 13 43 56 88.9% Barcelona 15 12 2 1 23 9 14 38 84.4% Celtic 24 18 4 2 52 18 34 58 80.6% Arsenal 24 17 6 1 64 24 40 57 79.2% Real Madrid 18 13 2 3 34 15 19 41 75.9% Inter Milan 12 9 0 3 26 15 11 27 75.0% Bayer Leverkusen 12 8 2 2 27 16 11 26 72.2% Werder Bremen 21 14 3 4 43 22 21 45 71.4% AC Milan
Some of the big guns who are outwith the Home top 10 - Chelsea, Liverpool, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Valencia & Porto. I'll say again - a marvellous record considering the resources available to Celtic.
I have heard more than a few of the Blues Brothers & others put Celtic's Parkhead CL results mostly down to good fortune. You cannot be consistently visited by such luck over a 5 season, 15 game period.
The other side of the coin (Away results) is too embarrassing to list in detail. We have taken 1 pt from a possible 45. The 32 team Away table shows Celtic at the bottom about 10 places behind Dynamo Kiev in 31st. Chelsea are the top performers in this department followed by Lyon, Barcelona & AC Milan.
That wouldn't be Lyon in 2nd position, would it? :-) They have played in all 8 CL first Group stages in this millennium - 24 Away games as opposed to Chelsea's 15. Facts which had obviously escaped the vast majority of the media prior to the Ibrox humping last night. In the Home League table Rangers sit 26th of 32 having played 12 games at Home - winning 4.
As further evidence of Celtic's prowess at Parkhead we have beaten the 3 we have played from this quartet of Europe's top travellers (Barcelona in the UEFA Cup). In the CL at Parkhead our only defeat has been by Barcelona.
Worst home performers are Anderlecht (31st) & Rosenborg (32nd). It would you make you cry - both managed to beat us.
The difference between Celtic's Home(4) & Away(32) positions is 28. Only 1 other team of the 32 gets into double figures - AS Roma with 14 & they are better Away than at Home!
Overall H/A we sit 19th.
Now nobody would be getting terribly excited about it all if we had consistently fluked our way to the Home performance or our Home results were to win 1, draw 1, lose 1 of ever 3 at Parkhead & the Away results were as above. We would conclude that we are performing 'at our level', have a grumble, move on & hope to do better.
But to perform like we do at Parkhead & then fling the Away form in thousands of fans' faces is a disgrace. It is not all down to Gordie. O'Neill made a bigger contribution to this state of affairs.
For people at Parkhead being paid millions to get it sorted & it still continues season after season is not acceptable. We have not learned or improved 1 iota Away over 5 CL seasons - that is why I find this "We'll have to have a look at that" comment to be mind boggling. Any CEO in big bizzo who had overseen such a similar historic difficulty & made that comment to his Board - they would have the company car keys off him in about 2 seconds as his arse went out the door.
I'm sick to death of apologists banging on about winning domestic honours as a defence of the above, as if that somehow excuses it. GS, & MON before him, DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about how to counter skilful & talented players who attack us on their own patch for most of the game, playing swift, passing football on the ground. The evidence for that view is now too copious for it to be otherwise.
In addition to being bottom of the Away table we are 1 team away from having conceded most goals per game away from home of the 32; Shaktar Donetsk being that team. As it is Panto time (an analogy) in a foreign Court we couldnae defend the beautiful Cinders on a trumped up charge of being one of the Ugly Sisters. M'Lud would have her locked up after about 5 minutes of proceedings.
For anyone interested in Rangers 32 team league performance - 26th at Home, 21st Away, 24th overall. If we had Rangers CL away form we would be 8th overall of 32 H/A - a possible Qtr Final candidate on paper. Never was there a truer indication of why Celtic's CL Away form is totally unacceptable - we have been the dominant Old Firm force in this millennium to date having taken 53 SPL pts to their 29.
Which leads me to the last 16 H/A knockout round...
When we got over the immediate shock of Artmedia Bratislava I think the vast majority of Tims were fair minded enough to conclude, 'Well, these things happen from time to time'. I am not so sure now.
Strachan, in his 10 (Celtic & Southampton) Euro 'H/A rounds', has not 'won' a single one on aggregate scoreline. Bodes well, does it not. The Chairmen of the Big Guns will be biting arms off at the shoulder to get Celtic in the last 16 on account of our Away record - of all possible opponents they'll calculate that there is the greatest likelihood of them winning by more at Home than their opponent (Celtic in this case) would win by on their ground. Of their possible opponents Celtic concede Away goals at a rate miles higher than any other.
Our only continental Away success in 8 seasons against a genuine Big Gun is the 0-0 Draw in Barcelona. Our extremely laudable & merited victories at Parkhead against Big Guns have generally been by 1 goal - Juventus, AC Milan, Barcelona (UEFA), Valencia (UEFA); Lyon (2 goals). Sorry, Gordon, Benfica are not a Big Gun.
My own preference from the 7 possible opponents is definitely NOT a continental team. My view is that Strachan is as wee boy lost in this arena once he disembarks from the Channel Ferry outbound. If he does indeed have any nous on the Euro road then it will be concerning English teams & their style of play. That'll be Chelsea or Man Utd then. The potential severity of a test against either of these 2 shows how much Strachan's continental ventures have inspired me.
In conclusion:
A Gingerista response to this would probably be along the lines of - any 'Away' conclusions drawn are based mainly on historical date & should therefore be suspect as they have little current relevance. I beg to disagree on the evidence of the Group stage. Celtic are the only Club in the last 16 to lose all 3 Away games, making it 7 consecutive CL Away losses for GS over the last 2 seasons. Celtic are the only Club in the last 16 to be scoreless Away. If that is not a telling indication of current Away woefulness then I'm an Orangeman.
I have yet to be convinced that those responsible understand the true scale of the disparity between CL Home & Away performance. I have heard some of them refer to it as a 'Monkey on our back'. A more accurate reference would be to an Orang-Utang with 6 weans hanging on its back. Understanding & acceptance of that will be a challenge equal to getting it sorted for Stracahn as there is a megaton of hubris & stubbornness in his character. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard Strachan's summation of a game just played & thought to myself - "Was I watching the same game?"
Not withstanding all of the above I'll be away wherever at the last 16 venue thinking that Celtic have a chance. Eternal opTIMism, eh?
Yours in a 'Glass Half Empty' zone congratulations if you have stuck to the task & got this far :-)
On a seperate note - A Happy Christmas to all
Celtic's away form is not unlike ours (Ireland's). Could take the rest of the afternoon off to read the rest of the post though
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
He seems to be mentioning the "We'll have to have a look at that". That's just Gordon Strachan's way of talking to the media. Everyone saw how disappointed he was to lose in Milan a couple of weeks ago.
tbh I think its a huge physchological thing atm. Not only should Celtic have had a peno early on in the San Siro last season but Nakamura was fouled in the box after running the length of the pitch and nothing was given. Italian TV didn't show any replays of it but I'm certain it should have been a peno. That was in the 88th minute. If that decision went for Celtic and they scored the resulting peno I think results on the road would have been better this season.
Faith, eh?
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Only conceded 9 at home in 15 games
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
He did mention it a bit at the start, I think it was what inspired him to do the research and put it all together, it's quite impressive I think
BTW this was on the topica Celtic mailing list, did you used to contribute to that mant moons ago?
Never heard of it. I did see a few of the articles you posted from the mailing list on a website. I can't remember which site it is but it could just have been a copy and paste from the email. Certainly a well researched article.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 14/12/2007 at 5:50 PM.
The early penno appeal was a marginal handball as far as I can recall. The late foul an Nakamura was a nailed on slam dunk penalty. Even the defender (Colossini?) knew it. Astoundingly bad decision. Only thing that stopped it being given (apart from a home team decision) was that Nakamura had just knocked the ball too far ahead. The run was coming to an end but that should be irrelevant. Certain foul, maybe obstruction in the technical sense but that rule has as good as disappeared from the game.
The Celtic fans can knock Strachan's way record in the CL all they want. The truth is that Celtic aren't a patch on the team that Martin O'Neill had. O'Neill's 2002-2003 team was an English top 6 equivalent in my opinion (as good as, say, Everton, if not a bit better). Strachan's team is top of Championship standard, home advantage at CP notwithstanding. Celtic fans should marvel at the 9 points at home this season, not moan about the zero points away.
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