QuoteGood enough for premiership level? you are having a laugh mate
Yes, because he's good enough for that level. I'm not comparing him to Cristiano Ronaldo.Originally Posted by ofjames
Good enough for premiership level? you are having a laugh mate
he is one of the very worst defenders in premiership history.
comparing him to o'shea now? thats completely daft.
o'shea was criticised for not reaching the levels expected of him until the last year or so simply due to the fact he was so amazing in his first season season in the united team. it was a case of disappointment given he turned out to be only!? a man united squad player instead of one of the very best defenders in the world...
o'shea and dunne have spades of natural talent but perhaps slight faults in terms of their level of aggression (o'shea) and concentration (both o'shea and dunne - dubious though)
mcshane has little or no natural ability (i sat in canal end one night for a qualifier when he was RB... he sliced every single ball up the line out for a throw, not even one went straight let alone to a man), and will make a mistake that will or should have cost you a goal every game he plays (eg koller vs czechs, penalty vs wales, henry in paris, countless times in the brazil friendly second half).
all he's got is a spirit to run through brick walls and stick his head in front of anything that moves. although that is admirable for a footballer, that alone does not make him a good player
he is nowhere near premiership or international quality as it stands, and
barring some sort of complete transformation in his game, he wont ever be in my opinion
Well I mean you guys are entitled to your opinions, but all of the circumstantial evidence is in my favour.
More than a bit harsh. Can you name all of the defenders in Prem history to back that opinion up with? Or do you just say something silly that you can't support like a politician does? Is that your thing? I mean I stopped reading after that line because it is such a dumb way to make a point and invalidates everything after it...
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Eh no, just comparing the level of criticism.
Do you just make stuff up as you go along. Maybe you are too young to remember and would need to go and read the O'Shea thread.o'shea was criticised for not reaching the levels expected of him until the last year or so simply due to the fact he was so amazing in his first season season in the united team.
He was criticised for 5 or 6 years because of his performances.
He was criticised because from the moment he came on in his first game for us, he was a liability for a goal.
People came on here and swore blind that he was useless, a coward, beyond repair, too nice, absent minded, can't pass, cant tackle, can't score from sitters, gives away penalties, anybody but O'Shea (even Maybury), and would never ever make a decent defender for us.
He isn't good enough for us but he is the squad, looking over his shoulder at the new kids coming in.he is nowhere near premiership or international quality as it stands,
Why do you think Trap has shifted O'Shea from his best position for us, out into RB.
Premiership quality? There is no one premiership quality. Which premiership quality? The top, the middle or the bottom third?
The botom third are no great shakes.
i was talking in the context of players who have made the number of appearances that he has at that level (ie... around 100).
of course you would know that if you bothered to read beyond the first line of my earlier post.
and in that context, i can think of very few players who performed as poorly as mcshane, or displayed the same propensity for calamity. he's right up there with titus bramble, boumsong, nosworthy, michael duberry.
if you think thats a silly point, your entitled to your view.
Firstly, "Maybe i'm to young to remember?" Thanks for the condescending pat on the head. Very Classy.
I'm 24 so thankfully i can just about recollect the period of my life from 18 onwards...
Unsurprisingly, having only joined the forum in late 2006 I did not take the effort to read back the entire John O'Shea thread to its initiation in 2002. My badI guess I may have better things to do.
Taking your word for it that that level of criticism was leveled at O'Shea in that thread, I can only say that I think people were grossly unfair to him. I dont think it was ever merited, and I think my point is valid that the level of criticism would not of been so sever had he not set the expectation level so high in his breakthrough year at united (a season when he rightly should have been named Young Player of the Year)
semantics. my point is clear, if i dont think he's good enough for Hull who have been relegated I dont think he is good enough for any premier league team.
Bramble was Wigan's player of the year last year. Boumsong is a player with nearly 30 caps for France, a country fairly blessed with defensive talent during his career. He's currently playing for one of the top teams in France. Nosworthy was a career championship player who was signed as cover by Sunderland and took advantage of injuries to get some playing time. He's back playing at his level. Dubarry was a solid top tier Premiership player until injuries started to take their toll and he began to look foolish in an increasingly erratic Leeds team. I don't see how comparison with these players makes McShane a write-off.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Gary Doherty anyone?
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
I always felt the criticism of O'Shea was harsh - often (not always) peddled by an anti Man U brigade. Also it was always debatable. However I dont think I have ever seen a worse player in a green shirt than McShane - even in the B internationals.
Dunne's ability was never in any doubt. Commitment of course when younger but not skill.
Even the Hull fans (no great expectations) are fed up with McShane. And only last week:
"Hull had only themselves to blame for the messy build-up to the opening goal after full back Paul McShane failed to clear a routine high ball. His daft clearance struck John Carew and bounced to Agbonlahor, who drilled it into the top corner. 'It was a joke goal,' Dowie admitted.
After McShane had comically tried to give away a second goal to Carew, George Boateng conceded a penalty when he hauled down Milner, who sent Matt Duke the wrong way".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-KO-blows.html
bramble and boumsong were a laughing stock at newcastle. they were utterly dreadful.
perhaps bramble has made an improvement in the last year, but his track record is appalling. he's blessed that he found managers who persevered with him for so long... this being his 7th season at the top. i would suspect the reason managers have shown this (blind) faith has to do with the fact he is a complete beast in a physical sense. something mcshane clearly is not. perhaps mcshane will prove me wrong and become an adequate defender for a team like wigan in the premiership, i would think its far more likely he will end up in chamionship or league one a la gary doherty however.
nosworthy played regularly at right back under mccarthy in the premiership and 2 season starting centre back for keane at that level - all the while keeping mcshane out of the team.
the only place mcshane hasnt looked terribly exposed is at championship level. that is his level every bit as much as it is nosworthy's.
duberry moved to leeds aged 23. he was really poor for them, and poor for every other club he has since turned up at. solid top tier defender? no not for me
How was Duff at Newcastle? Compare that to him now. What about Carr?, Writing off a player because he performed poorly at Newcastle is harsh
How was Duff at Blackburn?
How was Duff at Chelsea?
How was Duff for Ireland?
How was Carr for Spurs?
It's not comparing apples in my opinion Brendan - I don't think there is any example of a spell where McShane shone?
And I'd not write him off either. However I'd not let him near an Irish squad until he proved that he was not an unremitting liability.
I never thought i'd see anyone who was more reluctant to criticise a footballer than Jamie Redknapp on Sky. Seems like i've found one after another on this thread however. You guys are a very considerate bunch!
Harsh? He's been absolutely atrocious for Wigan at times also.
You're exaggerating again. Nobody is reluctant to criticise McShane - none of us would have him starting for Ireland - but there's a difference between being reluctant to criticise him and saying he's not good enough to play in the league he's been playing in for the past three years.
Hindsight is a wonderful panacea for smoothing the edges. No it wasn't even an anti Man U agenda here that pounced on Josh.
I could pick any number of games O'Shea played in for ireland.
Against Israel at the age of 24 O'Shea was just as much a liability for Ireland as McShane is now and Josh had stronger competition then for nr 1 scapegoat. I would doubt your honesty if you thought this criticism was harsh on O'Shea, because it was fair and accurate at the time.
"Very poor positioning"
"John O'Shea - The weak spot all night, gave away passes, drifted into the middle, on more than one occassion Duff was doing a better job of a left full!"
"He seemed to loose concentration a number of times and misplaced a few passes that should have been simple."
"John O'Shea was pathetic - careless, lazy and sloppy all night"
"There's times I think that my idea of playing left-back is completely different to reality! Maybe you're supposed to drift infield and let Reid cover back all the time? Maybe you're supposed to clear sloppily, hoof the ball into play or straight to the opposition."
What makes it look harsh is that Josh has worked hard since on his game to come good, to be a first choice for us and sorely missed when not around. McShane has every chance to do the same. Probably the odds are against it happening, the odds are against most players reaching a top standard.
I never understood the level of criticism directed towrads O'Shea. I always felt it was mainly from people way younger than Geysir and me who had only ever known football via the Premiership, and who felt that just because we were a hundred-odd miles west of the world's biggest football club and the world's biggest league that we had a right to expect world class players in every position. When you consider how far and wide the top 4 in England spread their youth scouting network it's great testimony to O'Shea that he made it at MUFC and is a very valuable player.
fergeson also rated him when he was at united did he not? and he was pretty good at west brom. i think he will be a good championship player, he has the heart of a lion but he is a liability. I wish every player worked as hard as he does thou you cant fault the guy for attitude, hopefully with experience he will cut out the mistakes, and i think his big problem for us is he never really got a shot at CB and he often played RB for hull and Sunderland as well so its a bit unfair to judge him on that, richard dunne would be a liability at RB too in all fairness.
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