�10m FAI bonanza

**Ireland4ever** · 09/10/2007, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by shanman2

My point is that the countries afformentioned produce their own players. The players are bought from Olympiakos, panathinaikos etc. But three teams in the UEFA cup and 1 in the Champions league seems to point to some sort of trend. Yes it does have a bearing on the national team we have one of the worst leagues in Europe.
Euro 2004
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
England
France
Germany
Greece
Italy
Latvia
Netherlands
Portugal (host)
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland

I would argue that all these countries bar latvia would have a better domestic league than us. So essentially you need to have a good domestic league and be a able to develope your own players in order to qualify for big tournaments. My reason being that at least most of their players are gauranteed European football and lets face it thats where it is at!! Not rely on the "Granny" rule or English-Scottish clubs to develope them.

Thats your opinion, which i dont agree with. All of our players are currently playing in the so called 'greatest league in the world' and are playing at the top level. So, how can you say playing in a crappy Danish league and getting a pasting every-time you compete in Europe is better? And to continue, if a player is good enough to play international football he will be snapped up by one of the top four leagues anyways.

**mrtndvn** · 09/10/2007, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

I presume you mean Darren Ferguson who anyway is a far far better manager than the guy we took away from laying out the training cones for Walsall's reserve team.

Would Darren Ferguson play left footed players at right back and right footed players at leftback?

Would Darren Ferguson play league 1 players ahead of premiership players?

Would Darren Ferguson bring cover for 2 centre halves?

It is bloody obvious we do have the players. Maybe not to win a major tournament but certainly to qualify.

Darren Ferguson's mother would probably make a better job of our team. as for his father....well come on. Any comparisons would be deeply insulting to the whiner.

Aye we have the players

Because we're just full of tallent. how many of them have won medals in the last five years? At any level?

Wise up lads, we dont have the team

**mypost** · 09/10/2007, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by WembleyGreen

So far the Staunton era has produced...a drubbing at the hands of CYPRUS, yes CYPRUS I have to repeat that because I still can't believe that it actually happened! San Marino 5-0? as it should be but even that is overshadowed by the German 13-0 result away.

Sure, Germany "only" beat SM 6-0 at home, so we can't be that bad, surely??

They also only got a draw in Cyprus too, which was the major f-up in their campaign. Stan bizarrely, held this result up as an example of how hard to beat Cyprus are at home.

Despite the fact that Germany got a better result in Cyprus than we did.

We are stuck with this time-waster for another 2 years of course, so we can drop to 70-80-90 in the world in the meantime, but what will happen if Delaney does the unthinkable and offers his lackey another contract!!!

**shanman2** · 10/10/2007, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Thats your opinion, which i dont agree with. All of our players are currently playing in the so called 'greatest league in the world' and are playing at the top level. So, how can you say playing in a crappy Danish league and getting a pasting every-time you compete in Europe is better? And to continue, if a player is good enough to play international football he will be snapped up by one of the top four leagues anyways.

They still compete in european competition and produce better quality players than us. On the big leagues snapping up players no less than 20 of their squad is playing football in Greece. No less than 15 of the squad that won euro 2004 played at home. As for Denmark I think they won the competition aswell in 1992 with a mainly danish league based team. So your points are not really valid.

**Poor Student** · 10/10/2007, 7:53 AM

Did anyone else think this thread was about the total collected fines for the season?

**Ireland4ever** · 10/10/2007, 8:20 AM

Originally Posted by shanman2

They still compete in european competition and produce better quality players than us. On the big leagues snapping up players no less than 20 of their squad is playing football in Greece. No less than 15 of the squad that won euro 2004 played at home. As for Denmark I think they won the competition aswell in 1992 with a mainly danish league based team. So your points are not really valid.

I think it proves my point more than anything. Denmark did'nt even qualify for Euro '92, they only gained entry because of yugoslavia (Or whatever they call themselves now) were at war. But when they got to the finals they showed what is possible when you have a well organised team with an astute manager. Greece are even more of an example, there was no European Stars in that team. Sure it was ugly to watch at times, but it was effective.
And to put this win down to them playing & getting whipped at european level for their clubs is farcical.

**shanman2** · 10/10/2007, 8:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

I think it proves my point more than anything. Denmark did'nt even qualify for Euro '92, they only gained entry because of yugoslavia (Or whatever they call themselves now) were at war. But when they got to the finals they showed what is possible when you have a well organised team with an astute manager. Greece are even more of an example, there was no European Stars in that team. Sure it was ugly to watch at times, but it was effective.
And to put this win down to them playing & getting whipped at european level for their clubs is farcical.

Can you remember the denmark squad that won in 92 most of them players were top notch. Back to the arguement at hand.
The FAI need to put money into the Eircom League, improve the standard and use the cash to help with the developement of our own players which they are starting to do now (10 years too late) with the development squads.
We need to have some sort of system where by clubs (for example Limerick 37) have a complete underage setup and have teams competing against other Eircom league sides. Until then Ireland will never compete properly at international level.
Give the young lads a reason to stay in Ireland to play for Eircom league clubs instead of going to england and being sent home heart broken never to play again.

**Dodge** · 10/10/2007, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Greece are even more of an example, there was no European Stars in that team

Greece had some excellent players playing for the likes of Roma, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid.

Players not from the giant countries will never get the credit they deserve...

**citizenerased** · 10/10/2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Greece had some excellent players playing for the likes of Roma, Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid.

Players not from the giant countries will never get the credit they deserve...

I think you will find the players got their moves to the big clubs after 2004 i.e dellas to roma(flop) and christeas to athletico(flop) and georgatis(inter reserve)

**citizenerased** · 10/10/2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by mrtndvn

Aye we have the players

Because we're just full of tallent. how many of them have won medals in the last five years? At any level?

Wise up lads, we dont have the team

Whats that got to do with anything..but if your asking

What you mean Duff 2 premierships,
o'shea premiership ,
finnan champions league FA cup, league Cup..
McGeady 3 Spl titles

**Dodge** · 10/10/2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by citizenerased

I think you will find the players got their moves to the big clubs after 2004 i.e dellas to roma(flop) and christeas to athletico(flop) and georgatis(inter reserve)

I think you'll find you're talking through your arse. Dellas went to Roma in 2002 and when fit was first choice, Karagounis signed for Inter in 2003 (and was by no means a flop). Charisteas was with Werder Bremen at the time (and joined them in 2002), since moved on to Ajax and then back to Germany. Nikolaidis was with Atletico madrid (having joined them in 2003)

And thats just the ones correcting your errors...

**Macy** · 10/10/2007, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

All of our players are currently playing in the so called 'greatest league in the world' and are playing at the top level.

And look how good the English system is at producing players for the England team... The English system is failing for their own, yet it's what we rely on with far less inputs.

**Stuttgart88** · 10/10/2007, 11:39 AM

Exactly, England can't even produce for themselves so how can we expect them to ook after our own. That said, I think they themselves underestimate their talent coming through. Their U21 team was seconds away from probably winning the UEFA Championship this summer.

A better domestic set up here should complement, not replace, the traditional exporting of our young players. For every Robbie Keane that went to England as a teenager there could just as easily be a Kevin Doyle. At least the ratio could come down anyway. At the moment it's way too high.

**Ireland4ever** · 10/10/2007, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

And look how good the English system is at producing players for the England team... The English system is failing for their own, yet it's what we rely on with far less inputs.

What? Are you for real. England have qualified for every major tournament since the 94 world cup, have reached the quarters of the last three tournaments, went out in the lotto that is penos for the last two.
They have an abundance of talent, but are just incapable of maximising that talent is their problem. How can you honestly say they cant produce players.

**Dodge** · 10/10/2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

What? Are you for real. England have qualified for every major tournament since the 94 world cup, have reached the quarters of the last three tournaments, went out in the lotto that is penos for the last two.
They have an abundance of talent, but are just incapable of maximising that talent is their problem. How can you honestly say they cant produce players.

England is a huge country (in europea terms) and hosts one of the top 3 leagues in the world. They should be producing as many world class players as Italy, Germany etc but they simply aren't.

Here's the BBC take on it http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/6976899.stm

**Stuttgart88** · 10/10/2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

They have an abundance of talent, but are just incapable of maximising that talent is their problem. How can you honestly say they cant produce players.

Funny thing is, they say it themselves!

I think his point is that they're not providing that many players for the big clubs (none really at Arsenal, and 2-3 only at each of Liverpool, Chelsea & United. Look at Spurs who have an English core and they're half-decent but no more. Scratch the surface and there's a lot of mediocrity. A lot of mediocrity that we'd grab in an instant mind you!

**DaveyCakes** · 10/10/2007, 1:07 PM

Penalties aren't a "lottery"

**Ireland4ever** · 10/10/2007, 1:08 PM

I dont think you can argue that germany are producing these great stars. Sure before the last world cup the country was getting beating easily and was going into the tournament without any confidence. In was the end of an era according to themselves.

And as for not providing players for the big clubs the list below is a decent. Given the fact that the top four clubs have non-english managers there is still alot of quality english players staring for these clubs.

United - Neville, Ferdinand, Brown, Scholes, Haregraves, Rooney,
Chelsea - Terry, A.Cole, Bridge, Lampard, J.Cole, swp,
Liverpool - Carragher, Gerrard, Crouch, Pennant

**shanman2** · 10/10/2007, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

I dont think you can argue that germany are producing these great stars. Sure before the last world cup the country was getting beating easily and was going into the tournament without any confidence. In was the end of an era according to themselves.

And as for not providing players for the big clubs the list below is a decent. Given the fact that the top four clubs have non-english managers there is still alot of quality english players staring for these clubs.

United - Neville, Ferdinand, Brown, Scholes, Haregraves, Rooney,
Chelsea - Terry, A.Cole, Bridge, Lampard, J.Cole, swp,
Liverpool - Carragher, Gerrard, Crouch, Pennant

That aint a team you have mentioned and the average age is about 29-30 years old it's whats behind that is what the English are worried about.
Trevor Brooking even said it himself that the future for england is not looking very good at the moment. The future of Irish soccer lies here in Ireland not in England. If they cant produce their own players how are they going to produce for us.
As for Germany they were in the world cup final in 02 and beaten by the eventual winners in 06. They have always produced world class players even if they never get recognised. Just watch the Bundesliga I think the games are excellent.