Change the flag - Yes or No?

[Macy]

I would like to see the harp in the white field but I have no problem whatsoever with the colours

A banana might be more apt though...

especially when religion doesn't have such a stranglehold on the country anymore.

I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).

[galwayhoop]

Brief mention from Wikipedia under 'Flag of India'

'To address Mahatma Gandhi's concerns, another new flag was indeed designed. This tricolour featured white on top, green in the centre and red at the bottom, symbolising the minority religions, Muslims and Hindus respectively, with a "Charkha" drawn across all three bands. Parallels were drawn with the fact that it closely resembled the Flag of Ireland, symbol of the other major freedom struggle against the British Empire.

how does a flag with horizontal stripes from top to bottom in the order of white, green and red have a simalarity to an irish tri-colour! surely the flag that was adopted of orange, white and green has more similarities!!!!
you gotta love wikipedia

[galwayhoop]

I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).

i think we can say, with certainty, that the catholic church has lost it's stranglehold over the irish state.

regardless how many schools they run the church has no control over the moral conscience of the citizens of ireland anymore. - FACT

[Dodge]

how does a flag with horizontal stripes from top to bottom in the order of white, green and red have a simalarity to an irish tri-colour! surely the flag that was adopted of orange, white and green has more similarities!!!!
you gotta love wikipedia

In fairness, the quote leaves out a bit. It initially talks about the green, white and orange one. Then mentions the flag symbolising the minority religions, but as we know this wasn't accepted.

The reasons for "our" colours are

Bhagwa or the saffron colour denotes renunciation or disinterestedness. Our leaders must be indifferent to material gains and dedicate themselves to their work. The white in the centre is light, the path of truth to guide our conduct. The green shows our relation to (the) soil, our relation to the plant life here, on which all other life depends

PS Myers is a ****

[Macy]

regardless how many schools they run the church has no control over the moral conscience of the citizens of ireland anymore. - FACT

Yeah, it can be seen in the way we are so open and transparent on issues like same sex marriage, abortion, father rights etc and why the Taoiseach of this country will seperate but not divorce.

I wouldn't down play the significance of the control of schools, particularly now the church is effectively blackmailing parents into "keeping the faith". (Baptism certs now, how long before a situation where you have to be an active member of the parish, or where whether you've paid your dues is the criteria?). Unfortunately this major break between church and state is unlikely to change while the Minister for Education is apparently a member of Opus Dei.

[jebus]

Jesus lets not get bogged down with the church and school debate again

[noby]

Stop mentioning Jesus so.

[jebus]

Stop mentioning Jesus so.

What am I gonna do? Reference myself?

[BohsPartisan]

I think it should be changed to an all red flag with a yellow hammer and sickle in the top left corner.

[noby]

I think we should replace our flag with a brown envelope.

[galwayhoop]

Yeah, it can be seen in the way we are so open and transparent on issues like same sex marriage, abortion, father rights etc and why the Taoiseach of this country will seperate but not divorce.

i was actually going to put up a longer post where i mentioned that there was no denying that as a country/people we still have the catholic 'guilt complex' (hangover) in relation to the issues set out by yourself above and others. but this is a result of our moral upbringing and the current youngsters will have much less of this 'moral conscience' influenced by the catholic church.

however to say the church has a stranglehold over the counrty is simply not true. to have that the church would need to influence our daily lives and it most certainly does not. do people worry what the church/parish priest thinks of their decisions anymore? definately not.

personally i think the (failed) referendum on divorce in 1986 was a turning point where 36.5% of people went against the churchs wishes and voted in favour of divorce. i know the ammendment failed but the fact it was held in the first place, against church wishes, and that so many went against the churches wishes was monumental imo. you must remember that at the time over 95% of the population was catholic and many more were practising at that time than now.

the subsequent referendums on abortion and divorce were carried by personal preferences as opposed to following the church's directives. if you think of how the church would have us live our lives and how the majority do - contraception, divorce, pre-marital sex, aboration, children outside wedlock, actually going to church on a sunday and not just for a wedding/funeral/christening....etc - then you can't assertain that the church has the stranglehold anymore.

Catholic hangover - Yes
Catholic Values/Controlled - No way

[galwayhoop]

On Topic -

Did Myers give any suggestion as to what he would have the Flag changed to??? Or did he state why we should change it in the first place???

[superfrank]

I don't know about that, given that 90% of primary schools are State funded Catholic Church run (with the state going to court to say they don't have a role in their running).

Go to mass on a Sunday and you'll see how many Catholics actually practice their faith. These are real Catholics, anyone else who says they are is insulting the religion.

[noby]

<Holy Rolly-eyes, Batman>

[Macy]

Did Myers give any suggestion as to what he would have the Flag changed to???

A red, white and blue criss cross effort I'd imagine...

[John83]

Go to mass on a Sunday and you'll see how many Catholics actually practice their faith. These are real Catholics, anyone else who says they are is insulting the religion.

I don't know about that. Many of those people are hypocrites who do not live at all according to Catholic doctrine. They go out of habit, for appearance's sake, or to bring their kids up Catholic. There are plenty of far better Catholics who aren't regular mass attendees.

He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

[Lionel Ritchie]

I think we should replace our flag with a brown envelope.

That's a fantastic idea. We could make it kind of like Cyprus' one but instead of a leg of chicken and side salad like on there's we could have a bulging envelope crowned with a winking eye.

Or

make the entire flag "envelope" brown embossed with an enduring image of the Ireland of the new millenium -say a hospitality tent.

[kingdom hoop]

make the entire flag "envelope" brown embossed with an enduring image of the Ireland of the new millenium -say a hospitality tent.

Best colour ever for a flag, envelope brown! Speaking of which, did Myers not recently have some spiel about how we've 'let in' too many immigrants - betcha his inspiration for all his latest socio-betterment notions for our, good but not great, country came while smoking a joint and gazing deeply at a brown envelope;

'oh, that window, so entrancing, almost seems like a chimeric representation of the soul of this fair land, yes, indeed, (sharp intake of air) we may just be onto something here kevie old boy

a shining harp, yes, the all encompassing symbol that binds the nation, a forgotten symbol of yore, but lament, lament, so underutilised, cast aside, needing a rebith for a new generation

ah, isn't that a beautiful primary brown hue enveloping the harp, surely is old pal, oh, oh, oh, you did it you scoundrel, you didn't, yes, yes I have it, the panacea for all the chronic ails of the country, the time has come, unfurl the glistening new flag!

but what else is here, you can't stop these kinetic brainwaves now, aha, look at that daring bold 'private' goading me, stop, stop, yes that's it, stop the, stop the.............immigrants, those yellow-bellied immigrants they daren't desecrate my harp, out, out I say.

(Myers subsequently dozes off into the land of nod, dreaming special dreams, dreams of wondrous elves, leprechauns and pixies, all playing the harp to a familiarly comforting regal melody; All Hail King Myers. A pleasant night for Mr.Myers, until he was rudely awoken by the dustman.

[kingdom hoop]

Argh get outta me head Kev. Despite what I, well really I was in character mode I suppose, have said I actually wouldn't mind a change of flag. I'm big into my flags, it all started back in the days of no internet and a dearth of comics in the neighbourhood so you just had to resort to the international section of the phone book to entertain yourself, all those bright colours and exotic names really grabbed me. I remember the Nepal flag in particular, a curious two-storey triangle! It's not all about colours and symbols Kevin you know! I picked up the Belize flag over the summer but lost it on my travels afterwards, great flag it was too.

I suppose changing it would be a bit like trying to change our anthem, but personally speaking at least, the anthem means more. It would only be a change for changes sake really, no good reason. What does a flag do anyway only make little boys in faraway lands dream of what the country might hold.

Would a poll be worth lashing up or are people pretty ambivalent about the 'issue'?

[Dodge]

Would a poll be worth lashing up or are people pretty ambivalent about the 'issue'?

I wouldn't be ambivalent about it, but no point in putting up a poll about a Kevin Myers article.

If a real debate emerges we might but as long as its just that self loathing arsehole...