Given dropped again

[Dyl10]

Medium to long term, Harper will be England number 1

[back of the net]

Souness the same, oh and 'back of the net' I hope your not implying that you have to be a catholic to be Irish or that there is even a connection? Strange comment that one?


what?????????

of course i am not - what a stupid comment - i was just using it in the context that he was a rangers player and manager - which unfortunately still has some protestant vs catholic rivalry (u know the whole anti irish element) and that if he was anti irish it would have maybe stemmed from his rangers roots hence he may not have married a catholic


catholic to be irish !!!!!!!!! - of course you dont and i never once implied it

[back of the net]

wembleygreen try keep ppls posts in context next time

[geysir]

i was just using it in the context that he was a rangers player and manager - which unfortunately still has some protestant vs catholic rivalry (u know the whole anti irish element) and that if he was anti irish it would have maybe stemmed from his rangers roots hence he may not have married a catholic


catholic to be irish !!!!!!!!! - of course you dont and i never once implied it

You are right that this anti Irish thing is thrown around way too much.
You did mention Souness's choice of partner as if it meant something in some context.
There are thousands of bigoted d!ckheads who have married nice Irish catholic girls and despite the perceived sanctifying cleansing effect of that union, they remain d!ckheads.
FWIW, Souness doesn't have to parade that alibi to try to prove anything. He has nothing to answer for.

Harper is a good keeper, why shouldn't he get a few more games? or Why shouldn't Allerdyce introduce a bit of competition into the goalkeeping position when the opportunity arose?

[Risteard]

I think this is unfounded, you couldn't manage any top football team with that kind of attitude,

Celtic, Rangers, Bilbao?
Although I agree that its totally unfounded.
Given should have left the toon years ago. They're probably coming out of the doldrums now but I'm still sure there'd be takers at bigger clubs and better teams.

[OwlsFan]

Given played last night against Arsenal. Lost 2-0. Didn't see the goals

[drinkfeckarse]

I saw Denilson's goal and there's nothing any keeper could have done with that one.

[Stuttgart88]

From The Times:

A rout was prevented only by a sensational performance from the acrobatic Shay Given, who must be among the best second-choice goalkeepers in the world, having been ousted from the first team by Steve Harper.

Allardyce is perfectly justified in giving Harper the jersey for now. He has been playing well in the first team & they've been winning games. Before long I expect Shay will get his place back.

Shay always seems to play well at Arsenal. I don't know what more he'd have to do to impress Wenger enough into making a bid.

[WembleyGreen]

tbh - i think this anti irish comment is thrown around a bit too much - i would be very surprised if allardyce is anti irish - ppl said the same thing about souness over the andy o brien incident at newcastle - but yet we see graeme on rte with the lads - and also (i could be wrong )but isnt souness's wife catholic)
back of the net, context. Read your comment again and see what you are saying, you are talking about anti-irish sentiment but you finish by asking if Souness's wife is catholic? Now that you've clarified your comment I can kinda see what you mean ie his upbringing, but it still comes across that, you like many others associate nationality with religion, making the assumption that all Irish are catholics and all Celtic supporters are catholic? Now I know you don't and that's all I was asking. I support both and I'm not catholic. Look i'm sure from reading the rest of your comments that you are not deliberately saying what I thought you were but so many people seem to fall into the celtic/rangers, catholic/protestant thing without realising it. I once heard Alerdyce on TV talking about his time at Sligo and dealing with the priest who was involved at that club at the time and whilst he didn't display any anti-irishness he was a bit typical English in his view of how things were run and organised but at the same time he sounded like he enjoyed his time there? I may be corrected on this because it was a long time ago. Going back to Given, see he played last night and conceded 2 goals although in fairness it was Arsenal and they are on fire at the mo so not having seen the game I can't comment on how he did. Interesting to see who's in goal at the weekend?

[back of the net]

tbh - i think this anti irish comment is thrown around a bit too much - i would be very surprised if allardyce is anti irish - ppl said the same thing about souness over the andy o brien incident at newcastle - but yet we see graeme on rte with the lads - and also (i could be wrong )but isnt souness's wife catholic)
back of the net, context. Read your comment again and see what you are saying, you are talking about anti-irish sentiment but you finish by asking if Souness's wife is catholic? Now that you've clarified your comment I can kinda see what you mean ie his upbringing, but it still comes across that, you like many others associate nationality with religion, making the assumption that all Irish are catholics and all Celtic supporters are catholic? Now I know you don't and that's all I was asking. I support both and I'm not catholic. Look i'm sure from reading the rest of your comments that you are not deliberately saying what I thought you were but so many people seem to fall into the celtic/rangers, catholic/protestant thing without realising it. I once heard Alerdyce on TV talking about his time at Sligo and dealing with the priest who was involved at that club at the time and whilst he didn't display any anti-irishness he was a bit typical English in his view of how things were run and organised but at the same time he sounded like he enjoyed his time there? I may be corrected on this because it was a long time ago. Going back to Given, see he played last night and conceded 2 goals although in fairness it was Arsenal and they are on fire at the mo so not having seen the game I can't comment on how he did. Interesting to see who's in goal at the weekend?

no i wont read my comment again - all the other readers knew what i meant but you have some issue with it - i never once said that you have to be catholic to be irish - it was meant in context but as GEYSIR said there are still some bigoted morons on both the protestant and catholic side who would associate religion with national identity - its a sad pathetic fact but its true.

religion does not come into national identity nor should it ever - the rest of the readers knew what i meant but you have mangaged somehow to completely take it out of context

take it the way it was meant - in context and move on

[back of the net]

You are right that this anti Irish thing is thrown around way too much.
You did mention Souness's choice of partner as if it meant something in some context.
There are thousands of bigoted d!ckheads who have married nice Irish catholic girls and despite the perceived sanctifying cleansing effect of that union, they remain d!ckheads.
FWIW, Souness doesn't have to parade that alibi to try to prove anything. He has nothing to answer for.

Harper is a good keeper, why shouldn't he get a few more games? or Why shouldn't Allerdyce introduce a bit of competition into the goalkeeping position when the opportunity arose?

completely agree - its a pity though some ppl could not take the post in the way that it was meant

[Lim till i die]

ppl said the same thing about souness over the andy o brien incident at newcastle

Think that was more to do with being anti-crap players tbh

Souness anti-Irish my hole

As for Shay, you can definitely see where Big Sam is coming from.

Besides tis bloody soft foreign types he has no time for, not the Irish

[SunderlandBohs]

Allardyce is not anti-Irish. Just because his sticking with Harper (an English keeper) over (an Irish keeper) Given doesn't mean his anti-Irish. He rates Harper above Given. He also managed Limerick & always gives them a mention. The same with Souness. He got rid of McAteer, Alan Kelly & Alan Mahon (who he signed if I'm not mistaken from Sporting Lisbon) not because they were Irish but because they were crap!

[galwayhoop]

Celtic, Rangers, Bilbao?

this really irks me tbh.

Celtic always get labelled as bigots along with Rangers when these conversations come up. The truth of course is that while both clubs have bigots supporting them Celtic never had an exclusionist policy as regards players/managers or employees. Jock Stein, Goalkeeper John Thompson (who died playing for Celtic in the early 30's), Danny McGrain and Kenny Dalglish are among some of the many protestants who were involved with the Hoops.

Rangers openly refused to employ (players and general staff) Catholics until Mo Johnstone in 1989 - and even then there was a massive backlash. Even Andy Gray commented in his autobiography that had he been in Scotland at the time he would have burned his jersey outside Ibrox on Mo's signing!! Rangers were over 100 years behind Celtic on that policy who in their history never excluded anyone from playing due to religous or racial preferences!!

Thankfully nowadays only a few lunatics on both sides push on with sectarianism and Rangers last manager Paul le Guen was also a Catholic (their first Catholic Manager iirc).


Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyway back on topic.

It is not Shay Given who is dropped as he is only returning from injury, Harper is in possession of the jersey (well up till last night anyway) and imo if Aldardyce dropped him immediately on Given's return from injury he would find himself searching for a 2nd choice keeper in January. As with any goalkeeping understudy Harper I'm sure is told to wait his turn and he will get his chance, which is what he has now. He is a decent keeper but will eventually suffer a loss of form or get injured and then the legend from Lifford will step back in.

[back of the net]

Think that was more to do with being anti-crap players tbh

Souness anti-Irish my hole

As for Shay, you can definitely see where Big Sam is coming from.

Besides tis bloody soft foreign types he has no time for, not the Irish

anti -crap players hahahaaa

[back of the net]

this really irks me tbh.

Celtic always get labelled as bigots along with Rangers when these conversations come up. The truth of course is that while both clubs have bigots supporting them Celtic never had an exclusionist policy as regards players/managers or employees. Jock Stein, Goalkeeper John Thompson (who died playing for Celtic in the early 30's), Danny McGrain and Kenny Dalglish are among some of the many protestants who were involved with the Hoops.

Rangers openly refused to employ (players and general staff) Catholics until Mo Johnstone in 1989 - and even then there was a massive backlash. Even Andy Gray commented in his autobiography that had he been in Scotland at the time he would have burned his jersey outside Ibrox on Mo's signing!! Rangers were over 100 years behind Celtic on that policy who in their history never excluded anyone from playing due to religous or racial preferences!!

Thankfully nowadays only a few lunatics on both sides push on with sectarianism and Rangers last manager Paul le Guen was also a Catholic (their first Catholic Manager iirc).


Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyway back on topic.

It is not Shay Given who is dropped as he is only returning from injury, Harper is in possession of the jersey (well up till last night anyway) and imo if Aldardyce dropped him immediately on Given's return from injury he would find himself searching for a 2nd choice keeper in January. As with any goalkeeping understudy Harper I'm sure is told to wait his turn and he will get his chance, which is what he has now. He is a decent keeper but will eventually suffer a loss of form or get injured and then the legend from Lifford will step back in.

have never followed scottish football (celtic/rangers)- but that info is very interesting

cheers

[brine3]

Bloody hell, using that goal as a reason to drop Harper is a bit unfair, jaysus he would have needed springs in his boots and go-go gadget arms to save that one!

Yes, because he was totally out of position.

[galwayhoop]

Yes, because he was totally out of position.

thats harsh!

he maybe could have been one step further to his left (if you are being hyper critical) but apart from that he was ok as far as i'm concerned. he was in a good position to come out for a ball over the top or through the middle and was moving back towards his goal as the ball fell to miller. it was a pot shot by miller and just one of those things imo.

i wouldn't blame harper for that one if i were aldardyce.

[Stuttgart88]

It is not Shay Given who is dropped as he is only returning from injury, Harper is in possession of the jersey (well up till last night anyway) and imo if Aldardyce dropped him immediately on Given's return from injury he would find himself searching for a 2nd choice keeper in January. As with any goalkeeping understudy Harper I'm sure is told to wait his turn and he will get his chance, which is what he has now. He is a decent keeper but will eventually suffer a loss of form or get injured and then the legend from Lifford will step back in.

Agreed, except that Harper is so loyal I think he'd hang around even if Shay did go straight back in.

It's simply a case of good man-management on Allardyce's part. Harper is a very good and very loyal deputy and he deserves his place. The world & his wife, including Allardyce, knows Given is the better keeper but he's returning from injury and the manager is sticking with Harper for now.

[Wolfie]

It's simply a case of good man-management on Allardyce's part.

That's exactly it. Its good man-management in ensuring there is healthy competition for places and also ensures that Given pushes himself back to top form in order to secure a return.