QuoteEngland and Spain both have strong, well supported (and funded) domestic leagues. They also happen to have far better teams than we have. What's your point?Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Well, here's where I got my data from. Average of 17,363 for the whole league. I know it's wikipedia but that looks fairly reliable to me.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
England and Spain both have strong, well supported (and funded) domestic leagues. They also happen to have far better teams than we have. What's your point?
Surprised you havent mentioned how the game you were at went considering they are into the CL for the first time: http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...id=588369.htmlWent to a Czech league game at the weekend. Slavia Praha v Banik Ostrava. First versus second; two teams with decent recent records. 6,400 there - Slavia's highest crowd of the season, each paying in 50Kc, or about E2. I was wondering how it is that clubs in that league can so comfortably defeat eL sides (Liberec v Rovers and Sparta v Cork spring to mind), and even in Slavia's case qualify for thr CL group stages.
Granted, qualifying for the groups is part of the answer, but I think the half time game was more important. Kids of about ten playing a strict eight-a-side game - even though both had nine players - on a good big pitch and with a strict formation. If a player made a tackle, he played it forward and went back into position. No swarm formations like you see at half time games here (and I've played in the fanzine half-time games, so I'm including my team mates in that criticism. I play in goals, so am exempt.). Even from a ten minute look, it seemed that style must surely benefit the kids more.
If you had been to both Liberec games like we were you would see how they can easily dispatch us. Very experienced European campaigners, physically strong and technically superb. We had a good side back then but we knew we were in with the big boys. Granted we could have a got a scoreless draw at Richmond if it wasnt for our keeper at the time but we never looked like beating them.
Less than a year before we played them they beat Milan in the CL qualifiers: http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...014/index.html
Skstu makes some very valid points. Good post. But we also need people to support their own clubs here not in a different country.
KOH
I agree with you concerning their players being sold to teams all over Europe. However, you are being extremely dismissive of the former Yugoslavian Nations domestic leagues role in all this!
Of the entire current Croatian squad only only five players haven't been transfered out of the domestic league. These players are:
- Josip Simunic who was born in Australia
- The Kovac brothers who were born in Berlin
- Ivan Rakitic who was born in Switzerland
- Mladen Petric who was born in Bosnia but emigrated during the war (same as my girl who is also a croat)
6 players from the croatian league have featured during the current qualifying campaign, one of which, Luka Modric is an important player for them. Another thing I admire about them is that they do not allow themselves to be exploited. Man City payed Dinamo Zagreb £8million for Vedran Corluka; Portsmout paid Hadjuk Split £3.5million for Niko Kranjcar and most astonishingly of all Aston Villa paid £5.8million for Bosco Balaban. Reading paid 100,000euro (i think) for Kevin Doyle. Bit of a difference there I think! Not only do they not allow themselves to be exploited but in the case of Balaban, it was Dinamo who exploited Villa, lol.
All this with an average attendance of 3,150 per game last season in a country that is nowhere near as economically strong as the Republic of Ireland but with people and a diaspora that have serious pride and sports mad. Pretty impressive if you ask me!
Last edited by Bucky-O'Hare; 18/09/2007 at 5:12 PM.
0-0. Very poor game. Kind of takes away from my point!
Great atmosphere though.
This would certainly be preferable to each LOI/IL club bringing through their own players, throwing kids with talent in at the deep end at 15 to be kicked off the park by part time plasterers, when they should be developing skill levels and not playing a tremendous amount of football.3) Establish an Ajax style national academy that identifies and attracts the top players at the youngest age and develops their basic skills and techniques. At age 16/17/18 a class graduates and the players are assigned to domestic club teams (maybe like the drafts in the NFL). If nothing else it makes the situation more glamorous and could quite easily be developed enough to grab the public attention.
Again i think this would have to be agreed with and done jointly with the IFA to have the set up right. Especially with the IFA having jurisdiction over the milk cup
Perhaps with campuses around the country, Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Galway, and somewhere in the midlands. Longford would seem suitable as it is fairly central with a LOI club who have one of the better stadiums in the country.
UCD are establishing an academy next year, incidentally. I think Pete Mahon has said he doesn't like the term "academy", and it's going to be more aimed towards catering for whoever wants to play football in south Dublin and doing a bit of advertising for the club on the side, but it's a start at least. Obviously, anyone good enough will attract the interest of the senior side.
As far as I know Derry are instigating their own football acadamy in conjunction with schools that will allow 16 kids+ to train each day as pros whilst studying. Hopefully this is the way forward.
As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls
Sums it up NYH. Physically and Technically we can't matc a lot of tehse teams. We acn make p for it through organisation and heart, butat the end of the day it isn't enough.
There are also too many people out there encouraging kids into bad habits and not devoting enough time to technique. tThrowing a few cones down and letting them run around after a ball isn't doing much for them. Parents of youngsters playing don't understand that winning isn't everything at that age (up to 12 IMO) with the result that the kids get confused betwen the manager and their parents.I heard a parent abusing a manager of an u-11 team because they couldn'tplay the offside trap.
We're not up to it physically or technically and until the FAI'S policy of all coaches requiring a coaching badge isimplemented fully we'l continue to struggle.
"Look at them. They're all out of step except my son Johnny"
Mrs. Delaney
Sums it up NYH. Physically and Technically we can't match a lot of these teams. We can make up for it through organisation and heart, but at the end of the day it isn't enough.
There are also too many people out there encouraging kids into bad habits and not devoting enough time to technique. Throwing a few cones down and letting them run around after a ball isn't doing much for them. Parents of youngsters playing don't understand that winning isn't everything at that age (up to 12 IMO) with the result that the kids get confused betwen the manager and their parents. I heard a parent abusing a manager of an u-11 team because they couldn't play the offside trap.
We're not up to it physically or technically and until the FAI'S policy of all coaches requiring a coaching badge is implemented fully we'l continue to struggle.
"Look at them. They're all out of step except my son Johnny"
Mrs. Delaney
Which does, in fairness, kind of come back to the original point. At the moment, we're dependent on another country to develop our players from the age of about 14 or 15. We need to be able to have more of a say.
My point was the leagues in ex-Yug are not well financed or supported. I agree that Dinamo and Hajduk (by far the biggest clubs in Croatia) sell their players on for fair market value.
Btw, there have always been Bosnian (or Hercegovine) born Croats playing for the national team. Marijo Stanic was born in Sarajevo, Goran Juric born in Mostar, Kruno Jurcic in Ljubinski, Stejpan Tomas in Bugojno, Boris Zivkovic in Zivinice, Mario Tokic in Derventa.
Given the strength if their domestic leagues they have not done too well really. England won the World Cup once when they hosted it. They also came 4th once, as did Spain.
Anyway I don't have all the figures but I will quote you this:
"For top leagues, the Bundesliga has been number one for the last few years, edging out the English Premier League, humbling the Spanish Primera and leaving crap leagues like the Italy's Serie Ha-ha in the dust. "
However the 'crap Italian league' has produced 4 world cups to Germany's 3 and England's 1.
OK Italy may be well funded but then Greece won the last European Championships as have several 'lesser' nations. There is certaintly not a cast iron link between attendance/funding and performance(winning) in big competitions, especially if you are English. Compare English clubs records to their national sides record for example.
Compared to the size of their population Ireland do pretty well. I would like to see a table which showed FIFA ranking points divided by population size!! I reckon Ireland might be top!!!
Actually it wouldn't, Croatia would come top followed by Scotland (I was bored) and the Scottish league seems to consist of just two teams, sometimes just one. Maybe we need a Scottish manger?
Yes it seems a national pride and enthusiam for sport are key ingrediants.
Cork City have a similar system up and running. It's run in Coláiste Stiofán Naofa, a 3rd Level PLC college by Liam Murphy who is one of the best talent spotters in the game (pity that he was a crap manager!). Shane Long would be the most famous player to have come through the system.
Players like Long, Daryl Murphy and Doyle have to be the blueprint. Develop at home and then if you're good enough make the move. Sending kids over to live in Britian and play ball is akin to slave labour IMO.
Oh no not them again
Isn't Cork's academy being run as a FAS scheme?
Honest! I am not a secret Tim nor a closet Sham - I really am a Seagull.
Definitely. Would be no harm for the FAI to take out short ads with each of these type of players encouragint hem to stay at home until they are old enough/good enough to move abroad(not necessarily the UK). Either in the programmes or on tv on matchdays. Would be better than those horrible "eh make it out to Stephen" eircom ads!
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
.
Compared to the size of their population Ireland do pretty well. I would like to see a table which showed FIFA ranking points divided by population size!! I reckon Ireland might be top!!!
Actually it wouldn't, Croatia would come top followed by Scotland (I was bored
But did you add in the GAA coefficient!!!!!No other country is plagued by that.At least not one that aspires to success!!!
"You'll not see nothing like the Shelbourne team"
I already knew that! Sure Corluka is also from Bosnia! The bottom line is that their domestic league has a vital role in the progression of their players thus contributing to the national team. The Croat league may not be as well supported as the premieship but it's bigger than here and no matter where you go around that country you won't be far away from a stall selling Hajuk and Dinamo merchandise.
What do you that we are the only country in Europe who have more than one popular sport? Basketball is massive all over Southern Europe, especially South East! Ice Hockey is also massive in many countries! Then theres the likes of handball and water polo which are no existant here.
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