QuoteWith the group we are in, yes we should be qualifying! Czech's aren't as good as they used to be, we are better than them, but not with the management set-up we have right now.Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
is anyone else getting sick of this whinging?.
thread after thread of ''Stan out'' ''Delaney out'', calls for abandoning games and burning tickets,whistle protests and black t-shirts. if this is the actions of the ''best fans in the world'' its a sad state of affairs.
we are a country of 6 million people, of which football is not our national sport!. YES the likes of Denmark, Finland etc.... can qualify for tournaments with a population of roughly the same size...but whats there national sports??
also they have(relatively)strong domestic games so have bigger crops of players to choose from, while we have a domestic game which is starved of media attention and attendences adveraging at the 2,000 mark!. that leaves us with only a pool of players to be choose from across the pond in england!.
with the influx of foreigners into the english game since the late 90's less opportunities are been offered to up and coming irish players thus reduceing our pool of players even more!
look at our squad now compared to lets use 1994
Given(NEW)
Finnan(LIV)
Dunne(Man C)
McShane(Sun)
McGeady(Cel)
Carsley/Reid(Eve/Char)
Ireland(Man C)
Duff(New)
Keane(Spurs)
Doyle(Rea) this is arguably are best 11, i think 99% will agree.
1994
Bonner(Cel)
McGrath(Villa)
Staunton(Villa)
Irwin(Man U)
Babb(Liv)
Keane(Man U)
Coyne(Motherwell)
Phelan(Man C)
Townsend(Villa)
Houghton(Villa
Sheridan(Shef W)
the comparison is massive..... you have two players playing regularily with the champions, 4 with the runners up the 2 yrs previous and the rest with mid-table clubs but all starters!!.
now you have players playing for lower-end clubs, and not all starting regularily.
we dont have a history of regular qualification for tournaments so it annoys me when i hear all this crap been said the last 2 qualification campaigns.... the players just arent there at the moment, basically the same team got us to 88/90 and 94 with a few exceptions(of players of a high calibre).
i never really agreed with the appointment of stan but the critisism is hard done by, the players are trained by the clubs all year, and its only prep work that goes on in international management so to say that its his fault and not the players is a joke really. they messed up in cyprus and nearly san marino, to contribute that to a manager is a joke. ive played under many managers myself in junior and apart from minor directions like ''play short passes, play the ball in behind the left-back'' you play your own game!!.
anyone who thinks its a given that we should qualify with that team needs there head examined...its a poor team we have at the moment and will stay near as it is IMO until we can push the LOI on to at least the level(attendence wise, finance etc....) the scandinavians are at!
get behind the team and stop complaining we're not brazil ffs!!
Last edited by gilberto_eire; 13/09/2007 at 1:17 PM.
There's the right way, the wrong way.... and the Max Power way!! :-D
With the group we are in, yes we should be qualifying! Czech's aren't as good as they used to be, we are better than them, but not with the management set-up we have right now.
Life without Rovers, it makes no sense...it's a heartache...nothing but a fools game. S.R.F.C.
I agree in part with what you're saying. I do think expectation levels are a bit high at times. However, with the squad we have got, although limited, we shouldve qualified in the last campaign and particularly in this campaign. Look at the ease at which Germany, the only good team in the group have qualified.
As Johnny Giles said last night, you can only look at the team and ask have we got the most out of what is available to us and the plain answer to that is NO. Who predominantly is to blame for that? Well the FAI for appointing an inexperienced (to say the least) manager and Stan for picking incorrect teams when 95% of the Irish public could identify the correct team. This campaign is without doubt an opportunity missed.
However, does stan get too much criticism? I think so, particularly personal criticism I know he doesnt help himself sometimes but we seem to have adopted an english style reaction to our results. Everyone was on a high after the Denmark game, many everyone is calling for his head again. The truth is that the FAI will not sack stan and he will see us through the 2010 campaign-I just hope that he learns from his mistakes of this campaign.
Last edited by elroy; 13/09/2007 at 1:25 PM.
Finlands national sport is ice hockey by the way
Even less than 6 million Gilberto. The Finns to be fair to them haven't qualified for a tournament since God knows when. Even the Danes, Swedes and Norweigans don't qualify for every tournament. Far from it. Only the Swedes look certain to qualify at the moment.
I take your point though that there is no way we are going to qualify for most tournaments. We are going to miss more than we qualify for IMO until we happen to get an exceptional bunch of players at more or less the same time. And that doesn't happen too often.
That said I don't believe we are helping ourselves at all with some of the muppets who are involved in the FAI and who they appoint as managers. We have limited resources so we should always be trying to maximise what we have and under Staunton that is never going to happen as he is hindering the team more than helping them.
I don't think there are many really good international sides in Europe at the moment so a bit of organisation, management nous and passion can take you a long way. You only have to look at the Scots and the Greeks.
And they never qualify for anythingFinlands national sport is ice hockey by the way
It's unrealistic to expect our better players to all be playing for top 4/5/6 clubs. They're all very wealthy clubs and the game is now truly global. In 1994 it'd have been rare for English clubs to have the best players from Africa, Argentina, Spain, eastern Europe, Portugal and even Germany's star player. In the "old days" the big 4 were made up of the best players from the British Isles and a few from further afield. Now the big clubs are made up of many players from further afield and only a few from the British Isles.
I'm not saying we should have qualified this time out, but we should still be in contention with 3 games to go.
Stan has made errors and the players have made errors and apart from San Marino away I honestly don't think we've got anything even marginally more than we deserved in a game. The last time I remember a bit of proper luck was the Holland game in 2001. However, players make errors in a fraction of a second, Stan's errors are measured and deliberated upon, and consistent.
We're all behind the players, we're not behind the manager. There's a difference.
[QUOTE=gilberto_eire;770361]is anyone else getting sick of this whinging?.
thread after thread of ''Stan out'' ''Delaney out'',
=QUOTE]
yes..and when they go it will stop....people who are giving out are passionate about this team...all I want is for us to get the best out of what we have...if we qualify well in good if not fair enough its because we are lacking....
we are not getting the best out of our current bunch of players...fact...that is down to the orgaisation skills and management skils of the management team......
for f*** sake...we lost 5 -2 to cyprus (yes i said FIVE) we beat san Marino with an injury time winner
and you think my expectations are to high.....look at norhtern Ireland and scotland...with organised managers..they ae getting a nice tune from the players...
Bring back the plank
When was the last time Ireland effectively out of qualification contention with still 3 games left in the group?
At least with McCarthy & Kerr & brought it down to the last game.
Eoin Hand immediately pre-Jack?
No it won't. It didnt stop when Kerr, McCarthy or Charlton left and the FAI have had more Chief Exec's than any other organisation known to man.
The rule seems to be that if we dont qualify the manager should be sacked. The last time we did that we panicked into appointing Stan. Who here wouldnt have preferred if they had kept Kerr?
Nobody is asking for us to qualify for every tournament. However, we as fans have a right to protest. We pay money to watch the team so why shouldn't we be able to voice our concerns. Maybe you might think it's a bit extreme but that's the only way to get the message through to the FAI otherwise they'll act as though all is well and good. Would you rather a protest which helps to get rid of a useless manager or be stuck with this guy and let him mess up our national team for years to come.
All I personally want from this team, and i think most people would agree is a bit of passion and organisation. If we have those two then we'd always give ourselves a chance of qualifying. To be effectively out of the race for qualification for 2008 with three games to go is a joke. Maybe the Czech Republic are better than us - I personally don't think so - but are they really THAT much better than us.
The results that this regime has brought has made us a laughing stock. Wales won 5-2 in Slovakia last night ffs. We really could get humiliated in Cardiff. I'll be going to that game, but if Stan hasn't gone by then then it'd probably be better if we got hammered as that would be the only way to save ourselves from years of inadequacy.
Football is the national sport of Denmark.
Add Finland have never qualified for anything as far as I know.
says it all
Hey Gilberto, Why shouldn't we have our say on how we feel? We're the mugs who pay good money to go to Croker, Nicosia, San Marino, Bratislava and Praque and countless other places. We are the ones who buy the merchandise and we are bums on seats who fork out for programmes etc. What do you suggest we do, nothing? The LoI debate is the same old story that always does the rounds on here, improve this and that, the FAI have been in charge for most of the last century and it's been in decline for most of that time. 4.5 million people in RoI, 1.5million in the Dublin area alone that's the problem lack of support from public and too small a population to sustain a viable financially self suffecient league of any real quality. Teams like Sligo Rovers, Cork City etc will only appeal to people from those towns/cities. Take Bray Wanderers, how many people from say Wicklow, Arklow or even near by Greystones would or do support them? Not many I'd say and it's to do with the fact that they are seen purely in the context of being a "Bray' team. The same with most of the other LoI teams. GAA works because it's a county wide team that plays and even then it's only the bigger and more successful counties that are supported in any big numbers or when someone gets to a final/ semi etc. All our better players are going to want to make the most of their talent and ambitious players will want to play at the highest level they can achieve and for our lads that means in England mostly, a better more astute manager would and could do more with this bunch of players but sadly we've got trainee when what we needed was a master!
I'd agree with some of your post difference in standards between the two, however if Denmark (1992) and Greece (2004) can win then qualification is a minimum, the fault with it is the structure of the FAI, we are paying two people to do a job and they are not succsefull at it. Building a team and building a manager should not be done at the same time.
Throw into that mix the Genisis report and it would lead me to believe that experience is vital for the roll as manager so take the money from STan and Robs and get the experience.
I don't buy this 'it's a young team being blooded' crap the team should learn from their games, it is fairly obvious they are not, this leads me to believe that the tactics are not there or the team aren't responding to them, do you replace the team or the manager???
We were beaten because we can't pass to save our lives, the Czech showed that with two or three passes to feet in confined areas can bring them all the way up to our half. I feel if that can't be instilled into a team then there isn't much hope for us. They moved in small units, we didn't The Czech's are not that good a side.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
I watched the game with another London based poster last night. Throughout the game we just rolled our eyes at some of our feeble attempts at passing, even during our good spell!
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 13/09/2007 at 2:30 PM.
See your point but you were whingin (rightly) about your clubs managers ambition etc earlier in the season. Its what we do tis human nature. Second best is never good enough. the times of "shur we'll be grand" are well gone!
"Are those my feet" Fr Jack Hackett
the fans weren't calling for kerrs head it was delaney...McCarthy was after saipan...not getting into that..CEO's went in the FAI because of internal feuding and politics..don't know any fan that wanted Bernard o Byrne to go....it was corcoran and delaney
read my post again..i said its not about qualification but about haveing a competent coach getting the best out of his players
when McCarthy took over we lost game after game etc but he was getting the best out of the young players he had...fans didn't call for his head then
Bring back the plank
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