Czech Republic 1-0 Ireland post match discussion thread

**DmanDmythDledge** · 13/09/2007, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by antrimgreen

I think the goal last night could have been prevented long before KK McG & Dunne even seen the ball, the ball should have been sent with Baros into the stand by Kelly instead he stood off let him check play a 1 - 2 and move the ball across the box. IMO.

Horrible defending from Kelly. Allowing the attacker to move inside is a cardinal sin (although could he have had his body facing the wrong direction because he usually plays RB?). After that Kilbane and McGeady cost us the goal. Kilbane shouldn't have gone to ground and McGeady should have been paying attention and moved inside like he was supposed to.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 13/09/2007, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

So tell me why in 40 years have we only had 2 decent away wins with teams far better than the one we went to Prague with. We way over-estimate the ability of our players:

Given: playing in a mediocre Newcastle side. We think he's great but if he is top class why isn't he playing for one of the top 4 teams? Let the goal in at the near post by the way.
Consistently one of the best keepers in the Premiership over the past 5 seasons.

Kelly: below average.

O'Shea: Playing (occasionally as a sub) for a top team.

Dunne: Plays for an average Man City team. We think he's great but if he is top class why isn't he playing for one of the top 4 teams?
One of the top centre back in the Premiership for 3 years.

McShane: Described by Dunphy, much admired by some of this Forum, as "an accident waiting to happen". Up to recently a Championship player and now playing for relegation candidates.

McGeady: Falls over 50% of the time when the ball is near him or runs up dead ends. Plays in a second rate league.
Plays out of position for Ireland.

Reid: Championship player who failed the test in the Premiership.
Very harsh on him. Was excellent for Charlton last season before he got injured.

Carlsley; Plays for average Premiership side and is not a creative midfielder.
Wouldn't class Everton has average and not in the team because he is creative.

Kilbane: Average player at Wigan Athletic.

DOyle, Hunt & Long: Play for Reading. We think they're great but in truth are they anything special and if so, what are they doing at Reading.

Keane: Spurs but again not playing for a top side.
He would get into any of the top 4's best XI.

Finnan: Only player playing regularly for a top side.

It is by and large a team of ordinary players who, because they're ours, we think they're great. That said, much of the opposition we have faced have been ordinary as well but we don't do away wins against mid ranking teams. Sad but true and perhaps a continental manager could somehow change the mindset of the players but I doubt it.

We need to be realistic.

Can't agree with most of that. Stupid judging players on who they play for and not how good they actually are. Ever hear of loyalty or the clubs not wanting to sell their best players. We have the spine of a team that is made up of quality players- Given, Finnan, Dunne, Reid, Keane.

**antrimgreen** · 13/09/2007, 3:06 PM

Very good point about Kelly being played out of position, blame for first goal = Stan for not playing KK left back. Mind you at that level you should be able to turn any direction and kick with both feet.

**markmc** · 13/09/2007, 3:12 PM

can i have some of what your smokin?

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Assuming we win our final 3 games

(well I did say miracle

) then the Czechs need 3 points, here is how they could fail.

Germany Away lose 0 points - likely a 'dead cert'
Slovakia Home draw 1 point - least likely I can only see the Czechs winning
Cyprus Away draw 1 points - fairly likely we lost 3 points there, germany lost 2, they are a decent side at home (so far anyway).

We could also qualify with win win draw, 7 points, if he Czechs lose all their matches. But then again two miracles back to back is asking a bit much.

Actually the Slovikia result which I say is least likely might happen they can run hot or cold as witnessed against Wales where they won 5-1 away yet lost 5-2 at home, they might actually beat the Czechs!

Having said that we will be lucky to get 4 points. But the glimmer of hope is that they struggled against us with 10 men.

Qualification is in our hands lads - unfortunately

**galwayhoop** · 13/09/2007, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Horrible defending from Kelly. Allowing the attacker to move inside is a cardinal sin....

I don't know about that Dman, there was plenty of cover inside. its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. by showing him inside the numbers Should have been able to cope and infact they were untill he passed the ball to Janokauski (sp?)

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

After that Kilbane and McGeady cost us the goal. Kilbane shouldn't have gone to ground and McGeady should have been paying attention and moved inside like he was supposed to.

correct on McGeady, he did nothing to help defending the goal, he should have ran with Janokauski (sp?) to put pressure on him once he passed the ball.

McGeady is nowhere near the level required for international football.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 13/09/2007, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by galwayhoop

I don't know about that Dman, there was plenty of cover inside. its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. by showing him inside the numbers Should have been able to cope and infact they were untill he passed the ball to Janokauski (sp?)

I can't remember exactly what happened last night but defenders should always be looking to move the attackers away from the goal and force them into the smaller space, giving up a corner at worst.

**Morbo** · 13/09/2007, 3:23 PM

Gutless ref, doubt he would have given that red if it wasn't a home game.
He also didn't book the Czech earlier when he dived for a penalty, its either a penalty or a booking for a dive, it can't be neither.
Anyway the Czechs won't go far, I'd be surprised if they got to the quarters

**antrimgreen** · 13/09/2007, 3:28 PM

I can remember clearly and found myself screaming at Kelly to make a tackle he had the oppurtunity to send ball out of play (timing) and in doing so made Baros feel like he was going to get nothing for free....

**galwayhoop** · 13/09/2007, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

I can't remember exactly what happened last night but defenders should always be looking to move the attackers away from the goal and force them into the smaller space, giving up a corner at worst.

iirc:
Czech attacker was on edge of the box (rhs), Kelly showed him inside (not the major mistake), ran 2/3 steps parrallell to goal, passed the ball accross the box (and back a few yards), attacking midfielder stepped over the ball and Janokauski (sp?) came onto it, turned inside (kilbane turned his back expecting a shot and was out of the game), then he played a one-two with front man, brought ball onto his left foot (taking Dunne out of the equation) and shot into net past Given.

the above is from memory but i think its close enough. IMO Kelly is far from the major ciulprit in the goal. and in fairness i wouldn't really hammer any of the Irish players individually for the goal as it was decent Czech play, no-one covered themselves in glory defendsively but no-one jumped out as the villian either.

**galwayhoop** · 13/09/2007, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by antrimgreen

I can remember clearly and found myself screaming at Kelly to make a tackle he had the oppurtunity to send ball out of play (timing) and in doing so made Baros feel like he was going to get nothing for free....

possibly but what if he lunged at Baros and Baros skipped around him (very likely) and was clear in on goal? then he is lambasted for diving in!

I know when I played football we were always told to stay on your feet and hold up the attacker and not to dive in! allow your cover to get into position. you must remember it was a very quick break by the Czechs after Reid's (poor) free kick.

i thought we actually got back in decent numbers after the initial break although we did stand off Janokauski - however he only got the ball after a step over which seemed to give him the extra yard he needed. and it is extremely hard to track a run like his from deep.

**galwayhoop** · 13/09/2007, 3:50 PM

again iirc we were penalised for a foul from the Reid free kick and the Czechs took a quick free with none of our players standing over the ball to prevent it being taken quickly. this in a match, if ye remember, where the ref pointed to his whistle every time prior to a free indicating it was only to be take on his whistle. again nothing major in the normal course of events but if we are analysing the goal ad nausim then there is fault here too.

**Newryrep** · 13/09/2007, 3:58 PM

My 2 cents

Cant be too disapponted,as the majority of people werent expecting too much following the team selection/display on Saturday and team selection for Wed -was anybody really expecting a win or draw. the really depressing things are the things that are most annoying us are

1. another major championship passes us by this time with 3 games to go, the fact that we lost to Cyrus 5-2 and until Sat still had a realistic chance to qualify sums up the qulaity in that particular group.

2. International football has seen a great levelling off IMO due to the influence of the big clubs. Smaller nations have a much better chance than years ago as long as they are not beat before they go on the pitch (esp against England and Brasil). While we dont exect to qualify for every tournament 1 out of 2 or 2/3 out of 5 isnt unrealistic. Yet we are being slated for being over ambitious ?

3. Current manager's inability to see/admit* what was/is blatently obvious as regards performances/what is acceptable eg we were bloody awful for 35mins before an injury gave us a lifeline

* how we laughed when Keegan left England but at least he held his hands up and admitted he wasnt up to the job

4. Team Improving ? - still up for discussion, it has certainly gone backwards in the last few games especially Saturday.

5 New manager - only if somebody better is actually available

So only a bit disapponinted as after Saturday my expectations plummeted , but bloody depressed

**SwanVsDalton** · 13/09/2007, 5:33 PM

It was harsh but the intent was there and if you give continental ref's the opportunity, they'll send you off. He's an idiot, but what matter? Hopefully he'll learn.

**bellavistaman** · 13/09/2007, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

it wasn't a red card. I was disgusted with the Czech's rolling around throughout the game.

Agree 100% baros an absolute ***** of a man too. richard Dunne and McShane made me proud to be irish last night, the passion they show in every game, top class

**pineapple stu** · 13/09/2007, 5:40 PM

If that was a red, every game should finish 8-a-side.

**Nailer77** · 13/09/2007, 5:42 PM

No, it was a stupid tackle, even if it wasn't quite a red its hard to argue the case.

**McGeady10** · 13/09/2007, 5:56 PM

Quite simply Hunt made it easy for the ref to send him off and can only blame himself. If you're going into a tackle like that at ANY TIME you leave yourself open to a red card.

If you go into a tackle like that in a match where the home fans are on your back cause you near ended the career of there goalkeeper and their players are desperate to get one up on you then you're an idiot... and that's exactly what Hunt is.

**antrimgreen** · 13/09/2007, 9:00 PM

I do know the basic rules on defending galwayhoop and yes Baros may have side stepped as he is very nippy, but IMO at the time i thought there was a split second when the tackle could have been made. And you are right if we had scored a similar goal we would be saying what great attacking play, scoring team think it was a great move defending team analysis the poor defensive play.

Done and dusted now, Kelly if starting should have been at RB. I now can't wait til Euro 08 is over so we are back to trying to qualify hopefully without Stan.