Why support ireland

[lofty9]

OK. I will explain the reasons why Irish football supporters annoy me. First of all, we get say 40,000 people at an international match. 90% of these people have never given the EL a chance. Now, I have been attending local matches for 14 years and I fully accept that the standard is not what it should be. My point is this - I cannot understand why the average football supporter cannot see the value in following a team week in week out regardless of the quality of the league. Thousands of people around Europe follow 'crap' teams because of a love for those teams. If Irish people had a similar mentality, maybe the league woud not be in such a state. Thousands of people travel to away games, travel to Sunderland etc, ignore the decent league that is dying on their doorstep and the proceed to claim they are great football supporters. They are pumping money into a foreign league. Just because they spend a fortune going to an ROI match does not mean they are doing much for the general good of the game here.

Surely you guys can see this?

Agree with this 100%. Our country will only prosper when we have a strong National League with club teams competing regularly in competitive European Competitions. A strong league will bring a lot more kids through the system than what is being churned out by English teams, even the English are struggling to bring players through due to the influx of other nationalities. The future of our national 'soccer/football' team should be developed from within Ireland - not depend on England as it has been done in the past and continues to be done. We will have more ambition about ourselves and a greater national pride when we can identify with our own home grown players pulling on the green jersey. There is no shame in having that sort of national pride. You see this sort of passion at GAA games, local identity and local heroes, if we could bottle that for our product we would be on the right road. I'm not saying don't support an English team, by all means if you want to go ahead, but when it comes keeping your own 'economy' going - keep your money for home and support your own team first. If every football fan from Ireland who attended an English or Scottish match this season went to see their local side this year we would have a start to my utopia!! It's a dream, I know.

"As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls." My new sig.

[paul_oshea]

[QUOTE]Thank you for showing your ignorance.
QUOTE]

Ok, but what about the plastics, who everytime I go away are in the plentiful, who have no affilliation to the EL and whose "local" club is an English team? Ireland CAN be supported by people outside of Ireland. Actually I dont know why I bother with you because you can never respond with a well formed or logical argument just like your good friend WAR. Its just some 1 line diatribe.

Would you not prefer to see Irish football develop? Do you see the national team as the be-all-and-end-all?

I dont have any affilliation to any EL club due to my geography and as a child, logistical problems to put it simple, but yes I love to see EL clubs do well in Europe as they are representing Ireland at that point, and its the only real area where I can attach myself to ( the step up from local club to the whole country if you will ) due to where I am from ( its from growing up you form these bonds, I dont have one, ask any person why they support someone and they will always say "ah well sure ive always supported them FROM AS LONG as i can remember" or "my father or brother or whoever brought me to matches" etc ). So, yes I do want the league to progress, thats a given. And yes supporting a local club would be the logical step, but what exactly is local?! For some thats not possible. And the chelsea supporters amongst us could also be included in this.

*For quite a few people Local is greater than 40Km with no direct access. So, for example, how do you propose a child of 10 gets to a game that distance away when there is no public transport. And as I said its at this age when these bonds are created. I know a good few lads who only go to Ireland home and/or away games, but will go down to see their local junior club side play for example. Just because they dont "support" EL sides doesnt mean they dont support Irish football. ITs not black and white.

Oh and thanks for pointing out my ignorance NY Hoop, I shall sleep easy tonight for that.

[NY Hoop]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;767677]

Thank you for showing your ignorance.
QUOTE]

Ok, but what about the plastics, who everytime I go away are in the plentiful, who have no affilliation to the EL and whose "local" club is an English team? Ireland CAN be supported by people outside of Ireland. Actually I dont know why I bother with you because you can never respond with a well formed or logical argument just like your good friend WAR. Its just some 1 line diatribe.



I dont have any affilliation to any EL club due to my geography and as a child, logistical problems to put it simple, but yes I love to see EL clubs do well in Europe as they are representing Ireland at that point, and its the only real area where I can attach myself to ( the step up from local club to the whole country if you will ) due to where I am from ( its from growing up you form these bonds, I dont have one, ask any person why they support someone and they will always say "ah well sure ive always supported them FROM AS LONG as i can remember" or "my father or brother or whoever brought me to matches" etc ). So, yes I do want the league to progress, thats a given. And yes supporting a local club would be the logical step, but what exactly is local?! For some thats not possible. And the chelsea supporters amongst us could also be included in this.

*For quite a few people Local is greater than 40Km with no direct access. So, for example, how do you propose a child of 10 gets to a game that distance away when there is no public transport. And as I said its at this age when these bonds are created. I know a good few lads who only go to Ireland home and/or away games, but will go down to see their local junior club side play for example. Just because they dont "support" EL sides doesnt mean they dont support Irish football. ITs not black and white.

Oh and thanks for pointing out my ignorance NY Hoop, I shall sleep easy tonight for that.

You're welcome.

It's obvious that the EL fans here are the ones bringing logic to this argument and if you dont agree with it its a "diatribe"?

Where did I say that Ireland couldnt be supported by people from outside Ireland?? But putting chelsea, who have a big reputation for being anti Irish in its support, on a tricolour is ridiculous:

Here's an extract form Patrick West's "Beating them at their own game".

"In the late 1970’s and 80’s, the London [Chelsea] club’s fans were notorious not only for displays of hooliganism, but for elements who attached themselves to the far right and indeed the Loyalist cause. When Chelsea’s first black player, Paul Canoville, made his debut in April 1982, coming on as a substitute against Crystal Palace, he was met with a chorus of boos, hisses and racist chants – from his own fans.

During these dark days, many of the team’s supporters, by wearing, “No Surrender” scarves and hats, and chanting anti-Irish slogans, openly aligned themselves with Glasgow Rangers and Linfield with some creating an organisation called the “Blues Brothers”, linking all three clubs.
Songs such as “No Surrender to the IRA”, “Hello, Hello, We Are the Billy Boys” and – neatly combining two prejudices for the price of one “I’d Rather Be a Darkie than a Tim” were sometimes heard.

Unlike Liverpool, Arsenal or Millwall, who had a sizeable contingent of Irish and second-generation Irish fans, and Irish players, Chelsea were regarded not merely as not an “Irish team” but as a positively anti-Irish team.
I remember standing in “the Shed” at Stamford Bridge as a teenager in the late 1980’s and having to listen to the man next to me spend the ninety minutes shouting abuse at Tony Cascarino, calling him a “f__king Fenian *******” whenever the Millwall player (who, incidentally has no Irish blood in him and was later to play for Chelsea) touched the ball.

Until the 1980’s the club’s only Irish-born Republic of Ireland internationals had been Dick Whittaker, who played once for Ireland in 1959, and Pat Mulligan, a defender who spent three years at Chelsea between 1969 and 1972.
On the other hand, Chelsea had always employed the services of Irish northern Protestants, pre- and post-war, from Johnny Kirwan, who turned out for Ireland in 1906, to Sam Irving, wing-half back of the 1920’s and 1930’s, and a moustachioed Kevin Wilson in the 1980’s. Their only Irish manager to date is Ulsterman Danny Blanchflower."


Also your argument that you have no affiliation to an EL club cos of where you live is drivel. I know a GUFC fan from mayo, there's a shels fan from wexford who goes to their games, a Rovers fan in Waterford etc etc.

A kid of 10 who wants to go can surely get a lift in an automobile no? You have them down there dont you?

WAR is my only friend leave him out of this!!!


KOH

[Stuttgart88]

We've through this over and over and over. You can follow Ireland without being an LOI fan, you can do both or only be an LOI fan. All equally plausible and noble choices, but each to his own.

Not to mention the thousands who actually play football every weekend. Oh no, junior football players are just barstoolers who play football as has been said here before.

Personally I think some LOI fans are muppets, many aren't. Some Ireland fans are muppets, many aren't. Some fans of British teams are muppets, many aren't.

[Dodge]

So, yes I do want the league to progress, thats a given. And yes supporting a local club would be the logical step, but what exactly is local?! For some thats not possible

But then these same people will support teams in manchester, london, liverpool etc and some even travel regularly. Can you honestly not see the huge contradiction there?

And as I've said before; the ROI national side will never be consistently good as long as out league is so weak. And our leak is so weak, because there's no money in it, due to poor crowds. So as long as people in Mayo feel more connection to Manchester than Galway, or Sligo, or Harps, the national team will never reach the heights it should

[Higgo]

We've through this over and over and over. You can follow Ireland without being an LOI fan, you can do both or only be an LOI fan. All equally plausible and noble choices, but each to his own.

Not to mention the thousands who actually play football every weekend. Oh no, junior football players are just barstoolers who play football as has been said here before.

Personally I think some LOI fans are muppets, many aren't. Some Ireland fans are muppets, many aren't. Some fans of British teams are muppets, many aren't.

Again you won't answer my question? Do you not agree that many Irish football supporters are hypocrites???

[Dodge]

We've through this over and over and over. You can follow Ireland without being an LOI fan, you can do both or only be an LOI fan. All equally plausible and noble choices, but each to his own.

But the point most of us are making is that the national team is only a very small tip. And if you can't see the connection between the league and the national team, I give up.

[jebus]

Glad to say I don't support the Irish National Team, mostly through my disinterest in international football in general than anything else I suppose, but when NY Hoop says that Chelsea should not be put on the Irish flag he is 100% spot on of course, it's just disrespectful, I don't know how anyone can argue against that, and Dodge is equally is equally correct in saying that if you say you support Irish football it should mean the EL aswell as the national side.

Back to Don Ramo's question, i don't know why you continue to support Ireland, but trust me, it's an easier life when you don't have to put up with caring about Slovakia snatching a draw, or when you can happily turn on a different, more interesting football match than the latest Ireland game, try it out sometime, I'm a much happier person for having turned off the Boys in Green

[Stuttgart88]

But the point most of us are making is that the national team is only a very small tip. And if you can't see the connection between the league and the national team, I give up.

You've been around this forum far longer than me, and easily long enough to know that I've frequently wished for a stronger domestic league and how I can see it being of benefit to the national team and young footballers seeking to make a career in the game. Don't give up on my account!

[paul_oshea]

But then these same people will support teams in manchester, london, liverpool etc and some even travel regularly. Can you honestly not see the huge contradiction there?

Things are changing but from my age group, we were introduced through parents or relatives or brothers etc, we also had TV and radio where we could hear and/or watch matches across water, building up a relationship with a team who probably had Irish players in their team and that was also a factor to supporting them ( as they also played for Ireland probably ), this was not the case for LOI teams at the time. There was no connection. We heard nothing about them. I considered Athlone town to be as far away as Manchester when it came to that, the only time interest grew where I was from was when a local player got signed for them and played in goals for them. This created local interest in the team ( just like an irish player signing for any given English club ) and people kept a close eye etc. But that was about it, we had no connection to ATFC.

Also your argument that you have no affiliation to an EL club cos of where you live is drivel. I know a GUFC fan from mayo, there's a shels fan from wexford who goes to their games, a Rovers fan in Waterford etc etc.

When did these become "fans",I reckon when they moved there sometime around the age of 20, I would almost call that bandwagon jumping. I have no affilliation to Bohemians even though I lived in phibsboro for 3 years and attended a few games. I wouldn't call myself a bohs fan and would feel hypocritical to do so.

And our leak is so weak, because there's no money in it

buy it from the country then, much better stuff

[youngirish]

Name one european country that is succesful without a well attended league

The same muck over and over again. The demographics in Ireland will not support an Italian, English or Spanish type league. The lack of a decent national league is not related to our recent lack of success as an International team nor was it related to the periods of success we have enjoyed in the recent past.

Scotland are hardly world beaters but have a good league by our standards. The same can be said about the Belgians, Russians, Ukranians, Greeks (bar that freak Euro win last time about), Swiss etc. None have been particularly successful in recent years yet all have better leagues than we could possibly hope to replicate.

The main problem is with the idiots running the game in the FAI and the facilities and staff they provide to work with our players. Our current squad of players is easily good enough on paper to qualify from this group. The quality of Doyle's goal against Slovakia was clear for all to see. The Slovakians certainly didn't look like they had a player that could do the same. We are constantly outclassed by inferior opposition for a number of reasons such notably ridiculous team selections and substitutions, very basic and negative tactics when in front and an ability to retain possession of the ball. These basic problems are not going to be sorted by pumping money into a national league.

Our best players (and consequently the ones that turn out for our International team) will always play in foreign leagues and will always be better off for it no matter how much dislike this fact.

If we had of appointed a half decent manager with some experience at a decent league level instead of Kerr initiall in 2003 I could have seen us qualfying for both the last World Cup and the upcoming Euros (given the same grousp of course) irrespective of the state of the national league. Individual mistakes by both managers have cost us dearly (the most galringly obvious one is persisting with dribble like O'Shea and the aforementioned negative tactics when a game is there to be won).

The continued presence of Givens at U21 level which is easily our most important youth team and the lack of ambition and success that has been bred into our young players at International level should also not be overlooked. Kerr should have been left looking after our youth where he was doing a great job.

[green army]

Sparse logic. If you seen the game you'd know that all 5 goals were down to mistakes by an Englishman, a Scotsman and an American

excellent...made me laugh out loud

[jbyrne]

Putting chelsea on a tricolour is wrong. What club do you support?

KOH

i support the junior club that i have given countless hours to every week for the last 12 years to ensure four teams are fielded week-in week-out in various junior football leagues. tasks include managing teams, ringing refs to ensure they turn up, washing kits, sorting training gear, taking training, sweeping the changing rooms, fund raising, putting my own cash forward to help support the club, getting in sponsorship, signing players, attending lge meetings etc. etc. etc. far more to supporting irish football than supporting an eircom lge club. but of course the eircom lge supprters will continue to take the moral high ground of "we are the real supporters of Irish football".. dont make me laugh

[jbyrne]

Supporting through thick and thin? Presume that's a joke of some kind. If bandwagon was an Olympic sport we would win every time.
KOH

eh... wheres the "bandwagon" of following a team without a decent away result in 20 years?

[lofty9]

i support the junior club that i have given countless hours to every week for the last 12 years to ensure four teams are fielded week-in week-out in various junior football leagues. tasks include managing teams, ringing refs to ensure they turn up, washing kits, sorting training gear, taking training, sweeping the changing rooms, fund raising, putting my own cash forward to help support the club, getting in sponsorship, signing players, attending lge meetings etc. etc. etc. far more to supporting irish football than supporting an eircom lge club. but of course the eircom lge supprters will continue to take the moral high ground of "we are the real supporters of Irish football".. dont make me laugh

Excellent. As do I. But I don't think EL supporters are stating they are "real " supporters - just miffed how English clubs have a stranglehold over Irish supporters, and thus pis sing on the grassroots football in this country.

[Junior]

Out of interest, do those with concerns for 'Chelsea' being embazened across a Tricolour have the same issues with Bart Simpson, "Hello Mammy", or any of the other stuff you see? or is it purely a Chelsea thing?

[cavan_fan]

if these so called world class players cant perform, just get LOI players at least theyll play with pride, thats whats missing

Bizarrely you berate Kilbane who is the most committed player you will see but want to bring in a LOI players with possibly even less skill for their heart, it really would be a team of Gary Breen's

Robbie Keane is a class player, created a goal on Saturday with a piece of skill which is beyond any of our other players.

[jbyrne]

Excellent. As do I. But I don't think EL supporters are stating they are "real " supporters - just miffed how English clubs have a stranglehold over Irish supporters, and thus pis sing on the grassroots football in this country.

i have had this argument countless times with eir lge fans that actually do claim to be the real fans and supporters of Irish football.

dont get me wrong. i would love to see a strong eircom lge and my only interest in foreign clubs is how our lads are getting on but until eircom lge football offers a consistent standard of decent football and facilities to match they are always going to struggle. simple as that

[NY Hoop]

far more to supporting irish football than supporting an eircom lge club.

You would be surprised how wrong you are there. Rovers is a fans run club. Seeing how you are the club man of the decade you should know better than posting crap like that.

Sounds like you have the high moral ground there clubman. I find some of the junior clubs atitudes to EL clubs distasteful to be honest. There are plenty of people involved in junior ball who also support EL clubs.

Re bandwagon 30,000 in Paris. How many in Denmark?


KOH

[jbyrne]

I find some of the junior clubs atitudes to EL clubs distasteful to be honest.
KOH

please expand. do we sign too many foreigners while overlooking the talent coming through the eircom lge?