NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

**Not Brazil** · 30/10/2007, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

[INDENT]
This is an Ireland forum everyone calls our team "Ireland". Many people fail to recognise "Northern Ireland" due to it being formed by a manufactured majority and a regieme that oppressed/ is opressing our nation for eight hundred years. Hence many call it "The North/The North East/ The six counties" or anything as long as its not "Northern Ireland" If you cant accept this why not post on "Are-we-a-Country".

Classic stuff. The kind of "rhetoric" that creases me every time.

Although, now we're getting to the REAL crux of the issue.

**Maroon 7** · 30/10/2007, 6:32 PM

Also, for God's sake try and stop being so biased. There is no national team named Ireland

People generally call the ROI national team Ireland. Sometimes they might say ROI but usually the Irish national team is just called plain old Ireland. Something I don't feel anyone has to apologise about. You'll never find two auld fellas in a pub discussing the Republic of Ireland game but you probably would find them discussing the Ireland game.

What anyone else wants to call themselves is their business but to us our team is just Ireland (and occasionally ROI).

**SuperDave** · 30/10/2007, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Their political opinions are irrelevant. If they weren't born there, don't live there and don't even have parents or grandparents, then they don't have connections. The GFA doesn't alter that.

where do fifa stand if those people have grandparents born before 1922, anywhere on the island? cos surely in that situation, they were governed from dublin and the team as constituted then represented the whole island. is it possible that a limited number of yound players could still get away with this?

**Maroon 7** · 30/10/2007, 6:42 PM

Surely richly ironic that one of the main arguments against this is that young nationalists "have no connection whatsoever to the Irish nation" despite the fact that they are citizens of said nation. From birth no less.

Surely a Month Python sketch in there somewhere.

**Drumcondra 69er** · 30/10/2007, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by SuperDave

where do fifa stand if those people have grandparents born before 1922, anywhere on the island? cos surely in that situation, they were governed from dublin and the team as constituted then represented the whole island. is it possible that a limited number of young players could still get away with this?

Yeah, that wouldn't be a problem, doubt that'd cover many kids born in the late 80's and early 90's though and that's who this concerns really, maybe a small few.

**geysir** · 30/10/2007, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

FIFA won't be ruling on whether someone has the right to be Irish. They'll be ruling on which of the Irish teams, Irish players are eligible to play for.

With reference to the citizenship status of the players.
Naturalization, citizenship by birth, quality of citizenship etc are issues which enter the criteria for decision.

**tricky_colour** · 30/10/2007, 9:52 PM

This thread is a joke, Northern Ireland is Ireland as far as eligibility for football
goes.

53 pages on the non-issue of the century

**lopez** · 30/10/2007, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cymro

Can't you see how ridiculous that is? By those standards English people with no connections could start declaring for Mozambique tomorrow...

LOL. A Welshman lecturing us on people with no connections declaring for other countries. In a 'footballing' sense, how did those players declare for Wales in the past with no Welsh connections? Don't know their names off hand, but the black bloke who played against in 1991 at Wrexham for starters. I know NI have picked a few non connected, but in the 90s you went completely overboard.

Originally Posted by youngirish

You just can't stay away from those primary schools can you Tuff Paddy?

No that's me. My present parole status prevents me from joining ourweeminds, due to the large ammount of children on it.

Originally Posted by Cymro

Show me the national team named Ireland. There's a national team named Northern Ireland, and one named the Republic of Ireland, but none known as Ireland.

What? Do you 'Republic of France' or the 'Republic of South Africa'. When you get your independence, you can come back and lecture us on sovereignty, citizenship and international agreements.

**shaneker** · 30/10/2007, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Classic stuff. The kind of "rhetoric" that creases me every time.

Although, now we're getting to the REAL crux of the issue.

Quite frankly, with the sheer amount of "rhetoric" posted by a significant number of people on your website (and don't give me the 'there's always one or two bad eggs etc' argument, I'm a member on your forum and its a fair bit more than that) I don't think you're in any position to be judgmental.

**kingdomkerry** · 30/10/2007, 10:56 PM

Ive looked at that site alot just to get an alternative perspective on things, anyone who gives an alternative view is patronised, and it is so anti Irish it is incredible!

**osarusan** · 31/10/2007, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

On the issue of the topic. It is an obvious breech of human rights preventing players play for their country. I cant for the life of me understand why the IFA cant concentrate on player who actually want to play for their plastic team and state!

How f**king stupid are some people?

Ruadhri Higgins is Northern Irish, not from the Republic.

In footballing terms, as well as political terms, Ireland and Northern Ireland are different entities. Yes it is an unusual relationship, but they are not the same thing.

Whether a Northern Irish footballer thinks he is best represented by Northern Ireland, the Republic, or anywhere else is not the issue. The issue is Uefa deciding whether these players are eligible or not.

Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Ive looked at that site alot just to get an alternative perspective on things, anyone who gives an alternative view is patronised, and it is so anti Irish it is incredible!

Cant you see how ignorantly hypocritical this comments is, when you consider this one-

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

I cant for the life of me understand why the IFA cant concentrate on player who actually want to play for their plastic team and state!

**DmanDmythDledge** · 31/10/2007, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

He does have an Irish passport. Its his first call up to an Irish side, unlike Deery (who the IFA had no problme with apparently)

Not the case, he has one cap for Northern Ireland U-21. He would have had to have changed his mind before he turned 21 to be able to play for the Republic.

**SuperDave** · 31/10/2007, 1:15 AM

Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Yeah, that wouldn't be a problem, doubt that'd cover many kids born in the late 80's and early 90's though and that's who this concerns really, maybe a small few.

the only country in the world where your eligibility turns not on the fact you've had nationality since birth, but when your granny was born?

brilliant.

anyway, as neil lennon has shown, northern ireland fans will support catholic players as long as they aren't "too catholic", and keep quiet about it. i can understand why catholic players don't want to play for a team whose fans have made a life out of trying to drive them out of their homes. it's one of the main reasons why i'm unable to support northern ireland. i wish i was proud of the team, but the fact that there are so many bigots in the crowd and the ifa seem to be doing to little to try to counteract the attitude (and it would be a big ****king start if they confiscated union jacks and other symbols of britishness, not to mention the national anthem) means i find it impossible.

**osarusan** · 31/10/2007, 5:21 AM

Here's a post by Ealing Green on the 2nd September, which still rings true -

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

People can choose to support whoever they like, but they can't always choose who they may play for - there are eligibility criteria laid down by FIFA.

This is what people seem to fail to realise - Fifa/Uefa are the only ones who will decide if Gibson and others in a similar situation.

Whether the player wants to play for Northern Ireland or not, whether they feel they are not represented by GSTQ and the respective flag,whether they "feel" Irish or not........related to this issue, these things are not relevant.

Fifa/Uefa may decide that it should be a right of all citizens to play for their country, or they may decide that citizenship alone will not allow all citizens to play for that country unless they meet other criteria.

If the decision they make breaks a law which overrides it, the decision will surely be appealed to that higher law.

If not, the decision will stand.

**Blanchflower** · 31/10/2007, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

This is an Ireland forum everyone calls our team "Ireland". Many people fail to recognise "Northern Ireland" due to it being formed by a manufactured majority and a regieme that oppressed/ is opressing our nation for eight hundred years. Hence many call it "The North/The North East/ The six counties" or anything as long as its not "Northern Ireland" If you cant accept this why not post on "Are-we-a-Country".

You seem rather bitter. But it seems that you do know the team is merely Republic of Ireland, even though you call it "Ireland".

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

On the issue of the topic. It is an obvious breech of human rights preventing players play for their country. I cant for the life of me understand why the IFA cant concentrate on player who actually want to play for their plastic team and state!

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

An obvious breach of human rights? My goodness. Which human right is being breached? This sounds serious!

**Blanchflower** · 31/10/2007, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Surely richly ironic that one of the main arguments against this is that young nationalists "have no connection whatsoever to the Irish nation" despite the fact that they are citizens of said nation. From birth no less.

Surely a Month Python sketch in there somewhere.

I haven't seen anyone make that argument. People have referred, though, to players having no connection to the South, i.e. not born there, not lived there, no parent or grandparent born there.

Originally Posted by geysir

With reference to the citizenship status of the players.
Naturalization, citizenship by birth, quality of citizenship etc are issues which enter the criteria for decision.

Obviously. But - as I said - they won't be ruling on any "right to be Irish"!

**Absinthe** · 31/10/2007, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

That's why people are saying that the rules are a nonsense when Eastwood (not very Welsh at all) is deemed eligible for Wales when Ruaidhri Higgins (as Irish as anyone else on the island) isn't eligible for Ireland.

Looks like he has an under 21 cap for Northern Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruaidhri_Higgins

Also, for all of the rhetoric on this site, it was against the RoI U21's. How could he play against his own country, that he has always dreamed of representing?

Also, this Ireland you speak of, is a political aspiration. It does not exist in footballing terms. There is the Republic of Ireland, and Northern Ireland. As I have said before, you dont have to like it, agree with it, acknowledge it, but its a real Country. Will it always be? Who knows. But at the moment it is. Why dont you try reading all of the GFA, instead of quoting the paragraph you're all so keen on. It mentions Northern Ireland quite a lot.

And yes, Ruaidhri is Irish. So am I, and im very proud to be so. Still doenst make me eligible for the Republic of Ireland football team.

**Not Brazil** · 31/10/2007, 8:05 AM

Originally Posted by SuperDave

i can understand why catholic players don't want to play for a team whose fans have made a life out of trying to drive them out of their homes. it's one of the main reasons why i'm unable to support northern ireland.

Can you expand on this Dave?

**Absinthe** · 31/10/2007, 8:09 AM

Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

Originally Posted by Absinthe

Why dont UEFA have a leg to stand on? I think they understand the law considerably better than you do. And again, there is virtually nothing a court can do.

I think you'll find I have a far superior grasp of law than you do pal, having studied it to degree level and having spent virtually years in court for the past decade.

I didnt say me, I said they as in Uefa's Legal team. I hope you're not a court researcher.....

**Absinthe** · 31/10/2007, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Ive looked at that site alot just to get an alternative perspective on things, anyone who gives an alternative view is patronised, and it is so anti Irish it is incredible!

As opposed to this bastian of enlightened thinking, where half the posters won't even type "Northern Ireland".