NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Maroon 7]

I don't think the legal route is an option and frankly we wouldn't win. We could use the FIFA appeals process and the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

I'm not sure why you would think we wouldn't win a legal challenge. I would think it's more likely that the FAI would win a legal challenge if they took it far enough. What I would doubt is whether the FAI would have any appetite to begin legal proceedings that could be both lengthy and costly. Eventually I believe it may have to come down to an individual taking a stand at some point to assert his rights.

That would however have to be an exceptionally strong-minded individual.

[co. down green]

The Irish times

The paper reports that the FAI:

described as “good and constructive” its meeting with Fifa yesterday in relation to the eligibility of players born in the North to play for the Republic. A four-strong delegation from Merrion Square came away from Zurich with a commitment that there will be no retrospective changes to the current position. The status of Darron Gibson has, therefore, been resolved.

Beyond that, it remains to be seen what attitude Fifa’s legal people will take to the IFA’s claim that the terms of the political settlement in Northern Ireland altered the situation. “We need some time to review all of the information that has been presented at these meetings,” said a spokesman for Fifa yesterday.

No decisions yet, i still expect the FIFA ruling of October 2006(post rule change) by Heinz Tannler, Director of FIFA's Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of their General Legal department stated 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'." to stand.

A bit early for the 'billy boys' to be creaming the pants !!

[gspain]

I'm not sure why you would think we wouldn't win a legal challenge. I would think it's more likely that the FAI would win a legal challenge if they took it far enough. What I would doubt is whether the FAI would have any appetite to begin legal proceedings that could be both lengthy and costly. Eventually I believe it may have to come down to an individual taking a stand at some point to assert his rights.

That would however have to be an exceptionally strong-minded individual.

FIFA decide who is eligible for national teams. They make the rules and if we don't like it then.....

Frankly I can't see the FAI taking it much further anyway. Delaney has enough on his plate and he can spin a positive angle here.

I agree on a player taking a case. That is the most likely outcome of a challenge if such a challenge was to materialise. The IFA would fight such a challenge though and as in the case of Bosman a victory would only benefit others if such a challenge was to be eventually successful.

A grandparent born before partition is a red herring anyway. Even if you had a very old grandparent FIFA's rule talk about being born in the terriritory of the football association and NI was always in the IFA's territory since 1880. In fact such a claim could be used for RoI born and bred players to declare for NI if they had a grandparent born before 1921.

[eirebhoy]

Unfortunately for you, it's FIFA's "opinion" that counts.

Your "sectarian abuse" comment is so tired.

Several Irish Passport holders proudly play for Northern Ireland....none of them receive sectarian abuse.

I think replacing the national anthem should be high on the agenda now do you agree?

[paul_oshea]

In fact such a claim could be used for RoI born and bred players to declare for NI if they had a grandparent born before 1921.

hmm, its not 1921, its 1947 gspain.

[Drumcondra 69er]

hmm, its not 1921, its 1947 gspain.

Think it's 1921 actually, leaving the commonwealth and declaring a republic is different then partition.

[soccerc]

Think it's 1921 actually, leaving the commonwealth and declaring a republic is different then partition.

I believe the actual date to be 6 December 1922, but have also found a reference to 6 December 1921.

[gspain]

The rules in this case are FIFA's rules not those regarding passports or when we gained independence.

The date is open to question. Peter Byrne recounts in the FAI's official history that the association was formed at Molesworth hall on June 1st 1921 although that maybe be the league as opposed to the FAI. We were admitted to FIFA in late 1923. I'm not aware of the dates here if they are recorded.

The rules relate to the terroritory of the football association. Even if a player had a grandparent born prior to 1921 or 1923 then they would have been born in the terrirtory of the IFA so it hardly benefits our case.

Anyway in fairness to FIFA and the IFA it wasn't exactly an earth shattering decision to say that players brought up in NI can only play for NI. However we have had a huge increase in support from NI (presumably mainly if not exclusively nationalists) in recent years and the next DG going to the Brandywell to support Derry City and down to Dublin to support the Roi is being told by FIFA that they cannot play for what they consider to be their national team. However that player is probably also playing schools and club football for clubs who get funding from the IFA and the UK government.

I think there is still some mileage in this one but I reckon it will need a player to make te case now.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I believe the actual date to be 6 December 1922, but have also found a reference to 6 December 1921.

Treaty signed 6 December 1921, approved in the Dail in January 1922.

[Not Brazil]

I think replacing the national anthem should be high on the agenda now do you agree?

It's been pretty high on my agenda for quite some time now - but probably for different reasons than yourself.

I think that if a Northern Ireland player (or "group" of players) raised the issue, it would expediate some change.

Maybe something akin to the practice of the IRFU would be a step forward?

GSTQ & new "anthem" in Belfast

New "anthem" only, away from home.

[Not Brazil]

Who cares what you lot do? I don't.

I understand that it might be a tough oul time for you Paddy, but I was merely responding to a question from eirebhoy.

And...you obviously cared enough to post about you not caring.

[Not Brazil]

I was simply making the point that nobody on here has the slightest interest in the ramblings of you or Ealing Green or your sad statelet team. And what anthem you play in front of your 'team' is your business.

No problem chum.

[soccerc]

Treaty signed 6 December 1921, approved in the Dail in January 1922.

I am well aware of the dates of the treaty.

I was researching a totally different aspect, purchases of motor vehicles by the Irish Free State 1921-29, in the National Archives when I came across a couple of documents relating to the breakway football association of the Irish Free State.

They piqued my interest and I followed through on the files, External Affairs IIRC, and came upon some dates as to who could be given a passport and citizenship. While the treaty was signed in Dec 21, the documents referred to a parent or grandparent born on or before 6 Dec '22.

[Drumcondra 69er]

I am well aware of the dates of the treaty.

I was researching a totally different aspect, purchases of motor vehicles by the Irish Free State 1921-29, in the National Archives when I came across a couple of documents relating to the breakway football association of the Irish Free State.

They piqued my interest and I followed through on the files, External Affairs IIRC, and came upon some dates as to who could be given a passport and citizenship. While the treaty was signed in Dec 21, the documents referred to a parent or grandparent born on or after 6 Dec '22.

No offence mate, just saw 6 December and assumed you were talking aboutthe treaty and you'd got your years mixed up. Probably some agreement giving grace to anyone born within 12 months of the signing. But haven't people from the 6 counties always been entitled to a passport regardless?

[backstothewall]

If FIFA are about to tell me and hundtreds of thousands of others we don't qualify for the Republic, which as far as i can tell is still an if, i would expect they will end up in Laganside courts.

I would imagine if this is the case the FAI will make a point of doing this quickly.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

But haven't people from the 6 counties always been entitled to a passport regardless?

Yes, I don't know why people keep bringing up the GFA as people in the occupied 6 counties have ALWAYS been entitled to Irish passports!

I cant believe FIFA think they can tell us different! How the hell can we not play for the republic while Bosnian Croats and Serbs play for Serbia and Croatia?? The FAI and the Irish government had better get this sorted!!

[MariborKev]

Have we?

I seem to recall having to provide details of grandparents born in ROI on a previous passport applciation.

[backstothewall]

You had to provide details of a parent or grandparent being born in Ireland before partition, in the Irish Republic after partition, or being an Irish passport holder. Potentially it could (and probably would) have been passed through the generations forever.

Then it was changed to born anywhere in Ireland after the GFA, then changed again cos of 9 month pregnant immigrants arriving in Dublin airport from all parts of the world. I'm not sure who isn't entitiled to it now, but i know Me, Darron Gibson, Micheal O'Conner and Tony Kane are, as well as David Healy (if he had any ambition that is)

[gspain]

Have we?

I seem to recall having to provide details of grandparents born in ROI on a previous passport applciation.

Not the case. Your entitlement to an Irish passport and citizenship does not differ depending on where on this island you were born (the rules have changed recently but not regarding NI or RoI).

The GFA merely enshrined th eright because Articles 2 & 3 were being modified.

[paul_oshea]

If FIFA are about to tell me and hundtreds of thousands of others we don't qualify for the Republic, which as far as i can tell is still an if, i would expect they will end up in Laganside courts.

I would imagine if this is the case the FAI will make a point of doing this quickly.

do ye know what,BTW, you could well be a young fella with an ambition to play for the republic, whats to stop you pursuing your dream of playing for us, could be worth a try