Another definitive statementOriginally Posted by Not Brazil
Well, rather than hear your interpretation, I think I'd rather hear a definative statement from FIFA - if it's all the same like.
Well, rather than hear your interpretation, I think I'd rather hear a definative statement from FIFA - if it's all the same like.There is a division between naturalisation and citizenship at birth. I can't see a contradiction there.
And you believe GSpain - does he work for FIFA's legal department? Exactly! - because he says what you want to believe. You're hoping he'll say Santa Claus is alive?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Another definitive statementWell, rather than hear your interpretation, I think I'd rather hear a definative statement from FIFA - if it's all the same like.
I thought you wanted to hear Gspain's interpretation.Well, rather than hear your interpretation, I think I'd rather hear a definative statement from FIFA - if it's all the same like.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
GSpain doesn't know his toe from his fingers when it comes to being confused on FIFA legal arbitration statutes.
So FIFA have said yes to Kane O'Connor Gibson transfers. Every one of them examined in detail.
The same FIFA department that formulated the Statutes in the first place, the same FIFA legal dept that formulated the Annex conditions for Naturalization, the very same FIFA dept that have arbitrated on the rights of dual nationals from all over the world, that arbitrate on all the naturalization issues as well.
The exact same FIFA dept that said yes yet again last October.
The one and only FIFA legal dept that have been a model of consistancy in their decisions since transfers between federation became an issue.
Against that we have a d'ickwit like Howard Wells with his amazing 'eh FIFA have not clarified it for us once and for all'
'I was in the toilet when that last letter from FIFA came and someone threw it into the bin before I got back to my desk so we did not get a letter from FIFA.'
(Todays Daily Mail)
"Republic up ante in Gibson cap row
Steve Staunton is prepared to risk the wrath of FIFA and Northern Ireland by fielding Darron Gibson in the Republic of Ireland's Euro 2008 qualifiers.
Northern Ireland manager Nigel Worthington, who has already persuaded Blackburn defender Tony Kane to switch countries after two friendlies for Republic boss Staunton, is desperate for Londonderry-born Gibson to do the same.
The 19-year-old Manchester United midfielder, who has an Irish passport, played for the Republic at youth levels, captained the Under 21 side and made his senior debut in last month's friendly win over Denmark.
Last night he was in the squad which left Dublin to face Slovakia and the Czech Republic but Worthington claims Staunton would be taking a major risk if he plays him.
Worthington said: "I will do everything in my power to get him into our system. I really can't see them playing him. If he plays and then FIFA deem him ineligible then they could be punished. And they wouldn't risk of losing points."
But Staunton's No 2, Kevin MacDonald, says the Republic are prepared to "take the risk". He added: "If Steve feels he is the right man to play on Saturday then he will pick him."
The FAI are confident that they have a watertight case and say FIFA told them last October they were within their rights to pick players with dual citizenship.
Gibson made his debut in 2003 for the Under 17s but a year later FIFA tightened qualification criteria. The FAI say Gibson's competitive debut preceded that change."
It may just be sloppy or incomplete journalism, but the final sentence of that article (emboldened) is curious. Does this imply that Northern-born players who made their "competitive debut" AFTER the tightening of the criteria in 2004 are not eligible?
No. Players from the 6 counties can choose to play with either north or south depending on their choice.
How many times do you have to be told. You cant be that stupid!!!
has Gibson ever publicly signalled what hed like to do? Would he even want to play for Norn Iron? Hes captained his country at u21 and gladly played a senior game so i would think that he would have no interest in doing so. Why would he, just look at the Neil Lennon situation. Also who the **** does Nigel Worthington think he is?
In this case the formatting of the last 2 paragraphs from the article is out of sync
It is my pleasure to put a dampner on your flicker of hope
The only utterings from the FAI recently was in the, already mentioned in this thread, radio interview with Wells.
The FAI just replied in a statement which was read out on air
roughly like this
'The FAI say Gibson's competitive debut preceded that change
The FAI are confident that they have a watertight case and say FIFA told them last October they were within their rights to pick players with dual citizenship.'
It is a no brainer.
I doubt Gibson is going to play anyway but I don't think it'll be a sign that the FAI are worried about his eligibility (as I'm sure it'll be interpreted on OWC). It's just that he has 1 cap and is at the back of the queue for midfield places so I don't see him being thrown into two competitive fixtures away from home.
If that muppet Worthington seriously believes/hopes that FIFA (isn't the docking of points UEFA's responsibilty anyway?) will turn around and dock the Republic points if Gibson partakes in any of the games over the next few days then he's as ignorant, stupid and petty as the average poster on OWC. I wonder if Nigel could tell me who was the last European team to be docked points for fielding players that are and have been legal citizens of a country for many years and who have played for their countries through U19 and U21 level before being promoted to the senior squad even making an appearance in a friendly before their first competitive appearance. All this under the noses of FIFA without any interference thus far.
Yeah I can see them docking us points for playing him. What a clown I can't believe he's serious. I see this silly attitude that we don't inhabit or have to operate within the real world applications of universal logic that EG obviously persists with has unfortunately filtered it's way into the higher reaches of the IFA.
Docked points me arse. I think you should put some money down in the bookies on that happening Nigel if you really think its possible. You'd be a rich man if it happened. I'd say the 10000/1 UFOs landing on the Whitehouse lawn bet before Bush's presidency expires is more of a surefire thing.
Gibson must now be dying to work with this man and sing GSTQ with his hand on his heart under the St George's cross at Windsor Park.
Last edited by youngirish; 07/09/2007 at 1:49 PM.
Gibson has made his views very clear which really adds to the disdain I feel for Worthington on this issue.
This has gone on so long I've lost track a bit. Remind me concisely what the issues are again.
In our (ROI & NI / FAI & IFA) case FIFA has carved out a separate ruling & in written form to each association, allowing players born in NI to play for ROI. So this is the essential point, pre-2004 or whenever is a red-herring. Yes / no?
Regardless of this then, from memory:
- A player who plays an "A" international (i.e., a full international, friendly or otherwise) is tied.
- A player who plays a friendly underage international is not tied.
- A player who plays a competitive underage international is tied. However, such a player, if this is the highest level he has played internationally, can change to another association he's eligible to represent as long as he does so only once and before he is 21.
Correct or incorrect?
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 07/09/2007 at 1:41 PM.
You deserve a reply from Ealing for that.
What was the tightening of eligibility the quote from the FAI bloke refers to?
Is it the bit about:
Must be born in the association's jurisdiction
Must have a parent or grandparent born in the associations jurisdiction.
Must have lived in the association's jurisdiction for 2 years
So prior to the "tightening" Gibson was only eligible because of his passport, but post the tightening he wouldn't be eligible to play for ROI.
However, the exception carved out by FIFA regarding FAI & IFA overrides this. So the FAI guy was saying that even if the FIFA carve out was never made, Gibson is still eligible to represent FAI.
I'm not asserting this, just querying my own understanding.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 07/09/2007 at 2:47 PM.
"Querying"? But don't you know, Stuttgart, there is no room for question on this topic? Otherwise, why would so many posters here be so absolutely certain that it is black and white, open and shut, over and out etc?
Tut, Tut, Stutt. Write out 100 hundred times:
"Darron Gibson is Irish and he's eligible to play for Ireland, because it's in the Good Friday Agreement and the Universal Charter of Human Rights"
It is the conditions of the Annex introduced 2004
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...%5fen%5f90.pdf
a simple easy to read doc.
No.So prior to the tightening Gibson was only eligible because of his passport, but post the tightening he isn't eligible to play for ROI.
He was always eligible to play for Ireland. Itīs just that he is still eligible after the Annex because he is a dual citizen. The Annex conditions only apply to players assuming a new nationality - naturalization.
No exception is made for Ireland, just the regular rules are applied rationally. The FAI guy was saying EVEN IF THE IFA THOUGHT THEY HAD A CASE, GIBSONS TRANSFER PRECEDES THE ANNEX. in a sort of way.However, the exception carved out by FIFA regarding FAI & IFA overrides this. So the FAI guy was saying that even if the FIFA carve out was never made, Gibson is still eligible to represent FAI.
Okay in that case you can walk away from the wall.I'm not asserting this, just querying my own understanding.
When Howard Wells was on NewsTalk during the week, they asked him about the possible points deduction should Gibson play, his answer was something along the lines of "that is for FIFA to decide, I couldn't possibly comment". When pressed that Worthington had made that statement, again he replied "that is for FIFA for decide".
From that, I took it to mean he hadn't a dog's notion if the points would be deducted or not.
Which I'm not allowed to download at work. Mentioned back around page 2 of this thread!
The Annex conditions are in this thread but that Document I have linked to is not printed out on this thread.
It is a FIFA legal department document on the ANNEX
It is by far the best page and a half document for understanding the Annex.
I canīt copy and paste this pdf document but I wonīt admit to not knowing how to.
Where was that said?.... Again another attempt to trivialise the counter arguments of others by attributing statements like that to them."Darron Gibson is Irish and he's eligible to play for Ireland, because it's in the Good Friday Agreement and the Universal Charter of Human Rights"
Apparently too easy and hypocritical of you to attempt to coin the counter arguments of others in three lines yet you bury your own sentiments in post after post of non commital shpeil....
FIFA regulatory issues... Jamie Carragher... Qatar... Northen Ireland is a unique situation... Anarchy in international football... I respect his decision BUT... ... Every other persons sentiment on this board are politicaly driven... You are all crazy fenians...
Okey Dokey!!
It's Friday afternoon, my reply to Stuttgart was light-hearted (hence the smilie)Where was that said?.... Again another attempt to trivialise the counter arguments of others by attributing statements like that to them.
Apparently too easy and hypocritical of you to attempt to coin the counter arguments of others in three lines yet you bury your own sentiments in post after post of non commital shpeil....
FIFA regulatory issues... Jamie Carragher... Qatar... Northen Ireland is a unique situation... Anarchy in international football... I respect his decision BUT... ... Every other persons sentiment on this board are politicaly driven... You are all crazy fenians...
Okey Dokey!!
Or are you still smarting from my previous reply to you the other day, Dr P? Or maybe you are suffering from PMT? (Pre-Match Tension, before you go off on another one)
Anyhow, calm down, prescribe yourself a chill pill, open a cold one, or whatever...
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