NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Maroon 7]

Nah mate we're better than you

Sure you're from Donegal.

You are us.

[lopez]

Sure you're from Donegal.

You are us.

Just proves if you are born in a stable, don't make you a horse. He can follow who he likes, IMO. I'd put money on his choice of Irish team being more of a political reason than just cos of the craic up at WP, although I find that the 'ourweeminds' brigade are a bit coy about any of this. Anyway, unlike players, he doesn't need any documentation to follow NI, and I say good luck aswell as good riddance.

What I find galling is that he wants to prevent those in the O6C to do the same and follow/play for the team that best represents his identity.

In fact he's gone a bit quiet about Maik Taylor - who represents NI without having qualified under the three terms listed. Perhaps fhtb's mum has told him to stop talking to weird men on the internet. I'd suggest his sudden retreat is that Taylor's presence in the NI team has shot a hole in his 3 rule argument, which he didn't think about when he decided to stop watching Tellytubbies and pop on here for a chat this morning.

[EalingGreen]

Well a poster on OWC has worked it all out. Even though most of it is nonsense and doesn't seem to have much to do with football.

"I think you will find that the will of the people of Northern Ireland will never be for a united Ireland, or at least separation from the UK.

Northern Ireland has always enjoyed superior roads, healthcare, education, public services to our neighbours in the Republic. I live in Dublin, being from East Belfast, for purely mercenary reasons. I would never bring up a child here, I would hate to grow old here, I would hate to become ill here and I would hate to be down on my luck here.

Most educated Catholic people from Northern Ireland would choose to remain part of the UK due to the superior quality of life. And many who don't would regret it once they came to live in a Dublin controlled state. SDLP largely tend to dodge the United Ireland question but claim to work for a better life for nationalists within the Union.

I definitely support both football teams and I am glad that there are two teams. I loved cheering ROI in 2002. But I support Northern Ireland principally and if the two teams were to play together, my allegiance would be with NI 100%. I would probably watch with my friends from the Republic and have a good bit of banter. I am from a Catholic family and was educated at a Catholic school. My father played and sang on the record released by the Northern Ireland Showbiz Association for Mexico 86 ("Mexico here we go!") and the caretaker from our school sang on it. Both Catholic men. I am sure there were more.

I genuinely believe if you look at the Catholic population of Northern Ireland, or at least in Belfast, the divisions between those supporting NI and those supporting ROI are largely socio-economic and education driven. Having gone to a large Catholic grammar school, I'd say that the support was maybe 60:40 to NI. And those who were from less advantaged backgrounds, in the main, tended to support ROI.

A few different points on different tangents there. Some people may disagree but it is what is rolling around in my head."

Are you hoping for an award for the "Most Irrelevant Post of the Year" or something? Or do you like winding yourself up? Or have you merely reached such an advanced stage of "Mopery Hiberniensis" that you couldn't forebear to post this?

None of the above has anything whatever to do with the question of Gibson, FIFA or international eligibility etc.

Rather, it serves merely to drag others entirely off topic, along an avenue which will see this thread closed. And where will you go then, to work out your anger and indignation?

[lopez]

...None of the above has anything whatever to do with the question of Gibson, FIFA or international eligibility etc. ...

No sh*te sherlock!

[EalingGreen]

The FAI made him feel welcome...

He didn't feel welcome at the IFA...

He chose to play for the Republic...

The solution is apparently to remove the choice?

It's not that simple. Jamie Carragher felt he was being messed around by the FA (McLaren), so he refuses to play for England. Danny Collins of Sunderland is hacked off with Wales (Toshack) and v.v., so his international career looks at least suspended. And Roy Carroll appears to be acting the maggot with NI at the moment too.

Does this mean they should just be allowed to pick another country to play for? Or if it had happened before they had made a senior appearance, should they be allowed to pick another country to represent, even if they do not meet all of FIFA's eligibility criteria?

The fact is, if Gibson does not meet FIFA's criteria to represent another Association, then he should not be allowed to do so.

And if his "home" Association (the IFA) is treating players badly, then that need to be put right, for everyones sake.

[EalingGreen]

The IFA say, however, they have done everything to try and persuade Gibson to play for them and are continuing to do so

Eventhough a spokesman for the family, speaking to UTV in February 07 said that no one from the IFA had approached or contacted Gibson, his family, Manchester United or his representative in England in the last two years and wondered about the real motives regarding the IFA’s sudden interest in their son’s international career and why it was being done via the media.

Leaving to one side the fact that February was seven months ago, and a new manager (Worthington) and a new IFA President (Kennedy) may be looking to resolve this situation with greater urgency than their predecessors, I would not be at all surprised if the IFA, having neglected/antagonised Gibson in the past, is now trying through the media to cover its ass.

But whilst that may account for Gibson's (understandable) refusal to countenance ever playing for NI again, it does not actually affect the question of his eligibility (or otherwise) for the ROI.

Nor does it affect the relevance or credibility* of the rest of the article, whereby the player's friend and teammate (Evans) stated his opinion that whatever Gibson's present allegiances and affiliations, he was not originally motivated by any great political ideals or leanings towards the ROI. Rather, Evans feels that Gibson's "default position" would have been to represent NI, and he would be doing so today, had the IFA not hacked him off.


* - From what I've heard, Evans is far too bright a bloke to risk his friendship with Gibson, by spouting off ill-informed or malicious nonsense in a newspaper at this time.

[Maroon 7]

Leaving to one side the fact that February was seven months ago, and a new manager (Worthington) and a new IFA President (Kennedy) may be looking to resolve this situation with greater urgency than their predecessors, I would not be at all surprised if the IFA, having neglected/antagonised Gibson in the past, is now trying through the media to cover its ass.

But whilst that may account for Gibson's (understandable) refusal to countenance ever playing for NI again, it does not actually affect the question of his eligibility (or otherwise) for the ROI.

Nor does it affect the relevance or credibility* of the rest of the article, whereby the player's friend and teammate (Evans) stated his opinion that whatever Gibson's present allegiances and affiliations, he was not originally motivated by any great political ideals or leanings towards the ROI. Rather, Evans feels that Gibson's "default position" would have been to represent NI, and he would be doing so today, had the IFA not hacked him off.


* - From what I've heard, Evans is far too bright a bloke to risk his friendship with Gibson, by spouting off ill-informed or malicious nonsense in a newspaper at this time.

I'm baffled (well actually I'm not) as to why you're giving Evans' own views on the matter so much credence when the views of Gibson himself have been well established in the media. You have it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak even though you're choosing to disregard it and go with a version of events that suits you more even though it's coming from a third party.

A bit odd that.

[EalingGreen]

In fact he's gone a bit quiet about Maik Taylor - who represents NI without having qualified under the three terms listed... ...I'd suggest his sudden retreat is that Taylor's presence in the NI team has shot a hole in his 3 rule argument,

In FIFA's Statutes and Regulations, they specify a clear exception to their rules and procedures on certain issues, as they apply to the four British Associations.

One of these is international player eligbility, whereby if a player has a British Passport, he may theoretically be eligible to play for any of the four countries. As to which he may represent, and what needs to be done in the event of a conflict between two or more Associations, that is left to the four Associations to agree between themselves.

From what I can gather, the last major revision of these "British arrangement" occurred in 1993:

"The national teams of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are, however, a special case because these four “home countries” are part of one national state, the United Kingdom. There is no such thing as English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish citizenship.

The associations of these four countries entered an agreement regarding international eligibility in 1993 which provides that a player holding a British passport is eligible to play for the country of his birth, the country of the birth of either of his natural parents or the country of birth of any of his natural grandparents. If the player, his natural parents and his natural grandparents were born outside the U.K., he may play for the home country of his choice. Our understanding is that once a player has played for one of the home countries, even if it is only a friendly match, the 1993 agreement precludes him playing for another home country. The FIFA rule change for players under 21 must be followed in the U.K., however. Under U.K. law, a player (or anyone, for that matter) who was born abroad becomes eligible for a British passport after five years of lawful residence in the country, and he thus becomes eligible to play for one of the home countries provided he has not played for another national side in official competition"

Maik Taylor first played for NI in 1995, in accordance with the above arrangements, and with the approval of FIFA.

The Annex which introduced the four additional criteria (birthplace, parent, grandparent or residence) was not introduced by FIFA until 2006, and is not applied retrospectively.

Therefore, these criteria do not apply to Maik Taylor, nor does his case have any relevance whatever to that of Darron Gibson (who may or may not have to comply with the Annex)

Still, I suppose a bit of irrelevant footballing "whataboutery" is preferable to the irrelevant political "whataboutery" you normally come out with.

[EalingGreen]

I'm baffled (well actually I'm not) as to why you're giving Evans' own views on the matter so much credence when the views of Gibson himself have been well established in the media. You have it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak even though you're choosing to disregard it and go with a version of events that suits you more even though it's coming from a third party.

A bit odd that.

Evans, who is in a good position to comment, is being quoted directly in this interview, whereas I have not seen so many direct quotations attributed to Gibson. Moreover, where Gibson himself has been quoted, it has mostly been straightforwardly factual i.e "I want to play for ROI", "I've no desire to play for NI" etc, which is fair enough.

However, I have not seen any interview with Gibson whereby he has gone at length into his reasons and motives for taking his stance, in the way which Evans does.

(And btw, I quoted the original article in its entirety, even though it both painted the IFA in a poor light, and repeated Evans's opinion that Gibson would now never play for NI. So your questioning of my motives perhaps say more about you than it does about me)

[geysir]

Are you hoping for an award for the "Most Irrelevant Post of the Year" or something? Or do you like winding yourself up? Or have you merely reached such an advanced stage of "Mopery Hiberniensis" that you couldn't forebear to post this?

There was no 'mopery' evident, afai could see.

There is nothing to fear from Maroon7, you are a stand out for the top award for the quantity of posts that fall into the the most verbose, irrelevant and repetitive catagory. It's a landslide.

[dr_peepee]

It's not that simple. Jamie Carragher felt he was being messed around by the FA (McLaren), so he refuses to play for England. Danny Collins of Sunderland is hacked off with Wales (Toshack) and v.v., so his international career looks at least suspended. And Roy Carroll appears to be acting the maggot with NI at the moment too.

Does this mean they should just be allowed to pick another country to play for? Or if it had happened before they had made a senior appearance, should they be allowed to pick another country to represent, even if they do not meet all of FIFA's eligibility criteria?

The fact is, if Gibson does not meet FIFA's criteria to represent another Association, then he should not be allowed to do so.

And if his "home" Association (the IFA) is treating players badly, then that need to be put right, for everyones sake.

It's as simple as acknowledging that unlike Carragher and Collins, Gibson HAS the right of choice of Nationality for reasons recounted many times over on this board and elsewhere.

Again you go back to alluding that the Northern Ireland situation will cause annarchy in FIFA's eligability criteria by citing hypothetical situations involving current players with other countries.

Northern Ireland is an exception. You've already admitted that in other posts. Let's stick to the case at hand.

The soul of your argument seems to be based around The fact is, if Gibson does not meet FIFA's criteria to represent another Association, then he should not be allowed to do so.

Do you not feel that for FIFA to force Gibson or any other player in the same situtation to represent Nothern Ireland, compromises somewhat his civil right of choice of Nationality?

By the same token, could you acknowledge that the IFA lobbying FIFA to ammend the criteria could be percieved by some people born in Northern Ireland as attempts by the IFA to compromise their right of choice of Nationality for their own gain?

Northern Ireland is an exceptional situation. The answer for me does not lie in dictating who people from NI should represent.

[co. down green]

Leaving to one side the fact that February was seven months ago, and a new manager (Worthington) and a new IFA President (Kennedy) may be looking to resolve this situation with greater urgency than their predecessors, I would not be at all surprised if the IFA, having neglected/antagonised Gibson in the past, is now trying through the media to cover its ass.

But whilst that may account for Gibson's (understandable) refusal to countenance ever playing for NI again, it does not actually affect the question of his eligibility (or otherwise) for the ROI..

eg

Leaving to one side the fact that February was seven months ago

Yeah it easy to leave things to the side when the reporter/IFA are telling lies.

I suggest if you are looking for some answers regarding Darron's commitment to his country you should contact Kenny Shiels, the north's u17 manager back in 2003-2004.

The last man to coach Darron Gibson in Northern Ireland colours feels the Derry teenager will not be the last to go south of the border.

Kenny Shiels was in charge of the under-17 side when the Manchester United defender decided that his international career lay with the Republic.

Shiels though knew that from a young age, Gibson had his heart set on playing for the Republic.

"He enjoyed his time with us but he always wanted to play for the Republic," he explained.

I see some over on 'Are We A Country' are also having a go at young Evans for daring to speak outside the box. How sad.

[irishfan86]

I see some over on 'Are We A Country' are also having a go at young Evans for daring to speak outside the box.

[lopez]

...The Annex which introduced the four additional criteria (birthplace, parent, grandparent or residence) was not introduced by FIFA until 2006, and is not applied retrospectively...

Thanks for answering for fhtb. 'Ourweeminds' owe you a bucketfull of gratitude for your ability to answer difficult questions.

Anyway, in answer, so too was Gibson's Irish international career (at youth level) initiated prior to this annex. So if Taylor's career has continued, so will Gibson's.

I'm interested in whether the IFA can still trawl England for players desperate enough to play for you on the technicality that they are British, yet have no connection with the O6C. If they still do, then it's still good old IFA double standards.

[kingdomkerry]

IFA double standards.........Never!!!!!!

[kingdomkerry]

All I want to say is . .. . TONY WHO?????

I couldn't care less. I've decided to avoid all threads that feature Ealing Green because he's sad, boring, monotonous and a one-topic poster. Yawn.

Not to mention WRONG!

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

All I want to say is . .. . TONY WHO?????
I couldn't care less. I've decided to avoid all threads that feature Ealing Green because he's sad, boring, monotonous and a one-topic poster. Yawn.

I agree TP. Just reading this thread again. Ealing Green continues to post the same rhetoric. It became sad, boring and monotonous a long time ago.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Jaysus Jamaican PM! Where have ya been? I've missed ya.

Thanks TP! I've been away for a while, but I'm back now and here to stay!

[geysir]

I heard the voice of Wells in a radio interview this evening
What a pompous condescending prxk. What an accent, sounds like a Terence O'Neill.
He refused to admit that the IFA received a letter from FIFA legal dept in October 2006. He claimed that FIFA sent a letter to the FAI. in Oct 2006.
Tut tut, we know that for what it is.

He also repeated the assertation that FIFA have requested info from the FAI and the FAI have not replied.
The FAI couldn't be arsed to be interviewed, pity because Delaney would have chewed up Wells in 5 minutes flat.
The FAI stated off air, that FIFA have not corresponded with them over Darron Gibson or any other matter relating to player eligibility.
The FAI state that Darrons transfer was sanctioned by FIFA and they have not been told otherwise, (picture loud farts and belly aching guffaws in the FAI offices over the points deduction scare)
The FAI also say that the annex conditions do not apply to Irish nationals born in NI.
Wells has demonstrated his ability to repeatedly tell a big fib. It's amazing the number of gullibles he has managed to suck into his fantasy.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

Were ya in the "big house"? as Jim McDonald useta say???

I was nowhere near the "big house" and even if I had been, you should know that I would be living with the luxury of internet access, a plasma screen tv and Joe Duffy on the radio!

As for big Jim McDonald, I wonder would he have declared for Ireland or for the North. I shouldn't be giving Ealing Green ideas. Next thing he'll be calling on the IFA to call up Jim's son, Steve McDonald as a replacement for the injured Tony Capaldi.