NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Dodge]

Do we have Scots, English, Welsh and N.Irish players choosing which of the home nations they want to represent? All of these players are citizens of the same country.

FIFA rules are based on nationality - that's why there are the parents, grandfather rules.

Incorrect. Anybody who has citizenship of Britian can play for any of the 4 teams you mentioned. Many cases of this over the years. Ex Pats keeper Trevow Wood played for NI, despite having no family link at all to NI.

The Scots and Welsh just choose not to use players without a Scottish/Welsh background. Although the Welsh links of some of their players have been beyond tenous. The English have cherry picked the best of the "naturalised" Britons (Barnes being probably the best...)

[paul_oshea]

Naive about what exactly? You don't think a promising youngster from this jurusdiction wouldn't take dogs abuse here if he decided to play for Norn Iron? Now who's being naive.

No, i was refering specifically to your comment about EG.

[ifk101]

Incorrect. Anybody who has citizenship of Britian can play for any of the 4 teams you mentioned. Many cases of this over the years. Ex Pats keeper Trevow Wood played for NI, despite having no family link at all to NI.

The Scots and Welsh just choose not to use players without a Scottish/Welsh background. Although the Welsh links of some of their players have been beyond tenous. The English have cherry picked the best of the "naturalised" Britons (Barnes being probably the best...)

OK. I stand corrected.

[geysir]

Naturally I hope you're right. I genuinely do.
I've followed this thread and similar ones over on OWC and read all the quotes from FIFA regs pertaining to this. I think our situation on this island is something of an anomaly ...though we aren't entirely unique. But I don't think FIFA have factored in situations like ours and I don't think they'd give a rats ass if it doesn't suit us..

FIFA have factored in our situation. It is not unique, People being born outside the political boundary who are 100% citizens regardless of ancestory connections and regardless of residency.

This is the famous annex 2 that the IFA harp on about
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federa...sid=92699.html
As I have said before
It does not apply to our our situation, It has only been used in Naturalization issues.

[Dodge]

Its becoming more prevalent though. The idea behind FIFA's new rules is to stop Qatar doing to football what they did in Athletics (which was to offer top kenyans absolute fortunes to switch nationalities) and their thinking is pretty sound.

However ourselves and the norht don't really conform to black and white nationality/citizenship and that will have to be taken into account. FIFA know if they tried to stop Irish citizens from playing for Ireland, they'd have to face legal challenges galore.

[cavan_fan]

You can say what you want, it is irrational to put it mildly.
Gibson's transfer to Ireland has already been approved by FIFA years ago.
The paperwork is standard stuff and impeccable.
If you are not sure about the legal situation then do the research or ask a question.
Residency requirements etc. do not apply here.
He was already tied to Ireland before gaining a senior cap.

This has confused me on this issue. Is there paperwork in this system. Do FIFA maintain a list of which player is registered for which country? I have never heard of one, I always thought it was self regulatory?

[geysir]

Transferring from one federation to another involves a written application from the player and supporting documentation to be sent to a Players Committee in the legal dept of FIFA, the player cannot play for his chosen country while the applic is reviewed. Once it is accepted the player can be selected by his chosen country.

[EalingGreen]

Please God give me strength. He's only silent because he now knows that he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Something he was told numerous times before Gibson got capped but simply refused to listen. That and we won 4-0. If we'd lost that match he'd be on here straight away posting some negative nonsense about our team.

Anyway we've all figured out long ago Lionel Ritchie that you are EalingGreen under a different login.

I have been silent for three reasons.

Firstly, if you look through all my posts, I have consistently maintained that the FAI's selection of DG in an 'A' International does not of itself resolve the uncertainty over his eligibility. He was originally given clearance, which is presumably enough for the FAI. However, that clearance is now subject to review by FIFA, who are quite entitled to revoke it should they see fit. Therefore, I had nothing more to add on that particular point.

Second, I was too preoccupied from Wednesday evening with another football match and from Thursday morning with conducting the usual post-match analysis of said match whilst simultaneously trying to fend off a raging hangover!

Third, I've had quite enough fun taking the p iss out of my English friends and neighbours after their outing against Germany to concern myself with your game!

Talking of which, I've only seen brief highlights of the goals, so cannot really comment. However, if Keane & Co have softened the Danes up a wee bit before their visit to play the "other Ireland" in Belfast in November, then good for them!

P.S. If you really believe I'm the same poster as Lionel Ritchie, then you're an idiot.

[cavan_fan]

Transferring from one federation to another involves a written application from the player and supporting documentation to be sent to a Players Committee in the legal dept of FIFA, the player cannot play for his chosen country while the applic is reviewed. Once it is accepted the player can be selected by his chosen country.

What does transferring mean. How would they know you were transferring, if you had played underage for the other country?

[EalingGreen]

Incorrect. Anybody who has citizenship of Britian can play for any of the 4 teams you mentioned. Many cases of this over the years. Ex Pats keeper Trevow Wood played for NI, despite having no family link at all to NI.

The Scots and Welsh just choose not to use players without a Scottish/Welsh background. Although the Welsh links of some of their players have been beyond tenous. The English have cherry picked the best of the "naturalised" Britons (Barnes being probably the best...)

Not so, Dodge. The "default" position is that any player from the UK, with British citizenship, will represent the home country within which he was born. Where a player is also eligible under FIFA Regs (e.g. through parents/grandparents) to play for more than one of the four countries, it becomes the player's choice which he represents. (The English-born James Morrison being capped for Scotland in midweek is the most recent example).

Similarly, where a player has UK Nationality/Citizenship, but no particular connection to any one of the four home countries, then the player may exercise his choice. So the (naturalised?) Jamaican-born John Barnes chose England - hardly surprising considering he lived in England from a very early age, was a product of English under-age football and earned his living with an English League team.

As for Trevor Wood, he was born in the Channel Islands, which does not have an international team of its own. Therefore, to disallow his representing one of the four home countries would effectively have prevented him from playing international football entirely. Of course, he chose NI, since it gave him the best (only?) chance of selection. However, his fellow Islander, Matt Le Tissier chose England.

So it's hardly a case of anyone "cherry-picking", unless you consider trying to get the best possible squad of players available fits that description.

Anyhow, in the case of dispute or ambiguity, the four "home" Associations long ago made a "Gentlemens' Agreement" to resolve cases amicably, which holds successfully to this day.

Of course, if I were the mischievous stirrer that so many people on this Board seem to think, I might further point out that the present Gibson controversy has only arisen following the decision by the FAI (Brian Kerr?) unilaterally to tear up the Gentlemens' Agreement of 1950, brokered by FIFA, whereby the FAI agreed not to pick players from the IFA's jurisdiction and vice versa.

But I'm not, so I won't...

[Dodge]

Not so, Dodge. Most players from the UK, with British citizenship, represent the home country within which they were born.

I never said otherwise. I just pointed out that it was not always the case.

As for Trevor Wood... he chose NI, since it gave him the best (only?) chance of selection.

Kind of the point I was making

So it's hardly a case of anyone "cherry-picking", unless you consider trying to get the best possible squad of players available fits that description.

Didn't mean cherry picking to be an emotive word. I'll rephrase... "England picked the best of the naturalised Britons" Of course hem being based in England helped. The curious case of David Johnson being the most extreme example

Anyhow, in the case of dispute or ambiguity, the four "home" Associations long ago made a "Gentlemens' Agreement" to resolve cases amicably, which holds successfully to this day.

Again this was the point I was making. They have their own rules, seperate from FIFAs and good luck to them...

[EalingGreen]

Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Not so, Dodge. Most players from the UK, with British citizenship, represent the home country within which they were born.

I never said otherwise. I just pointed out that it was not always the case.


Kind of the point I was making


Didn't mean cherry picking to be an emotive word. I'll rephrase... "England picked the best of the naturalised Britons" Of course hem being based in England helped. The curious case of David Johnson being the most extreme example

Dodge,
Re your first point, see the edited version ("default position") which I subsequently posted.

Re. the "cherry picking", fair enough that you didn't mean to be perjorative. But if you think about it, the present arrangements mean it is the players who may "cherry pick", not the Associations. It's just that when it comes to money and prestige etc, for most players who are good enough, England represent a juicier cherry than the other three Associations.
Mind you, a few might think differently after we see who actually qualifies for Euro2008!

[lopez]

...even in silence Ealing Green has been far more graceful, magnanimous and, once again, respectful than I have any confidence some of the lick-spittles on here would be if FIFA had made an interjection to stop him playing for Ireland ...or, for that matter, if any player born in the FAIs jurisdiction decided to switch to play for Northern Ireland ...much less one on Man Us books...

No doubt you are referring to me when you speak of the lick - spittles here.

Would I have a fit if a ROI player played for NI? No chance of that because Britain doesn't give a passport to those born in the 26C unless a parent is British (or born British ie. in the UK before 1981 which between 1801 and 1921 included the 26C). So unless we have some Julio Iglesias Donegal unionist's son picking NI, that ain't going to happen.

But who's fault is that Lionel? The Irish or the British government? Certainly we know that to play for NI you can only be from the 26C if you are a British resident, but it doesn't work if you are a supporter does it. There is a (small, large, whatever) support from Donegal that support NI and consider themselves British and Unionist. They all have Irish passports. If it would shut up EG and the others on OWM, I couldn't care if they were Pele. If they considered themselves NI/British, then they should be able to play for NI.

I believe it was the poster David that stated that one (only one?) of this group was making a special plea to the British government to get a British passport. I say good luck. But what is the latest? Because I believe that unlike the Irish government, the British aren't going to give him the citizenship he craves. I watched in total disgust one day on BBC Breakfast TV a Zimbabwean white man with a Home Counties accent about to be deported back to Zim. His 'crime'. Not a political activist or general troublemaker, but he indulges in what Oscar Wilde would call that 'love that dare not speak its name'. Despite being more British than me he was being refused citizenship and asylum.

Someone has pointed out the key difference between Qatar and the Brazilians and Ireland and the people in the part of its country still under British rule. All of them are entitled to Irish citizenship. Qatar would not dare do the same, principally as its population is 744 thousand while Brazil's is 190 million (200 Brazilians to every 1 Qatarian). That will be the key to why FIFA will throw out any claim. The Brazilians would have had to go through some sort of naturalisation. Prospective Irish citizens from the North have it as an automatic right from birth.

And who knows, perhaps the Czechs will have their own Darren Gibson. Certainly, this is a part of the world where the borders are hugely different from 100 years ago. In fact Hungary recently refused to grant any longer citizenship to Hungarians born outside the country with no connection to present day Hungary. I work with a Hungarian (also Gay) bloke from Yugoslavia who escaped the war there through this ruling.Germany certainly did likewise until they found too many Germans in the former USSR.

EG claims that Gibson will allow every disgruntled minority to do likewise. It already happens. Disgruntled minorities belonging to another, irredentist, state sometimes have the right to automatic citizenship. With the Hungarians, they don't. They can't now play for Hungary unless they live in Hungary.

Anyway back to our friends in Donegal who want to support and - if good enough - play for Northern Ireland. As you may recall we briefly had the head of ourweeminds, Marty, on here - calling himself as 'on the kop', but known to me as the army groupie because of his unhealthy obsession with men in khaki (British and American principally) This is what he had to say about Donegal supporters following NI.

I support NI because I'm from NI - Northern RoI supporters support RoI because they want to make a statement that they're NOT from Northern Ireland. To me that is a political not a footballing statement, the same political statement those Finn Harps fans are making. Those who choose the Republic over the country they were born in can expect no respect from me, and if I was a Republic fan I would feel the same about those Finn Harps fans. I would reserve my greatest contempt for those players who take advantage of the IFA training schemes from schoolboy age and then cross over but.


http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=92911&postcount=32

Maybe, if you want to have a pop at people, calling them lick spittles for being unhappy about someone from 'the Republic' playing for NI, you should call on your chum Marty on ourweeminds first, before throwing around allegations at people here, of whom not one person has complained that they'd think an inverse version of Gibson (a unionist born in the 26C) playing for NI would be outrageous.

I would like to ask the question to everyone here: How would you feel if Darren Gibson was from Letterkenny but wanted to play for NI because all his great grandfathers were orangemen, signed the Ulster Covenent and died at the Somme? Even though he'd make a load more money and play in more tournaments if he played for the country of his birth?

My answer is I couldn't give a f*ck.

[cavan_fan]

I would like to ask the question to everyone here: How would you feel if Darren Gibson was from Letterkenny but wanted to play for NI because all his great grandfathers were orangemen, signed the Ulster Covenent and died at the Somme? Even though he'd make a load more money and play in more tournaments if he played for the country of his birth?

My answer is I couldn't give a f*ck.

Yeah but that's an easy position for us to take. The 'problem' for NI is that roughly half their playerbase may choose to play for another team. If everyone in Dublin started to declare for England we'd be getting worried. I suspect this is the real issue for NI fans, it would move them from being a 'country' with one million people to one with half a million (almost Luxembourg level).

[paul_oshea]

Would I have a fit if a ROI player played for NI? No chance of that because Britain doesn't give a passport to those born in the 26C unless a parent is British (or born British ie. in the UK before 1981 which between 1801 and 1921 included the 26C). So unless we have some Julio Iglesias Donegal unionist's son picking NI, that ain't going to happen.

Lopez, you are wrong there, say for example my father, because he was born before 1947, and he applied for a british passport, which he could still do, then I could also.

[Dodge]

I suspect this is the real issue for NI fans, it would move them from being a 'country' with one million people to one with half a million (almost Luxembourg level).

Is it ****. Its 100% down to the whole NI thing. If there were 10 million in the north and one million wanted to play for the South, it'd be the same reaction.

Still can't believe how many people discuss this on a purely football level when it obviously isn't.

[paul_oshea]

Is it ****. Its 100% down to the whole NI thing. If there were 10 million in the north and one million wanted to play for the South, it'd be the same reaction.

Still can't believe how many people discuss this on a purely football level when it obviously isn't.

cos according to you and other pats fans, politics and football dont mix

But on the context of cavan_fans, if you are right Dodge, they do a very good job of covering it up if thats the case. I would say there is obviously a sizeable section who take that view but there is the fear - from all - of them having a far smaller playing pool to pick from, which is reasonable on their part.

[bwagner]

Fu*k the north the scum fans . they are so narrow minded and are nothing but a pack of sad bigots....the fact that I couldnt join their fans forum is a joke...i even e-mailed the admin....no reply at all.
Also ,Picture the scene ...myself and my girlfriend driving back from a day trip to Newcastle , we drove through Annalong in a Louth Reg car, and we were stopped by the psni because of a orange march. You would want to see the looks of complete hate we were given...Nothing to do with football true but a good encounter of what the unionists are like. (Im a member of the church of Ireland to which is the funny thing)

[paul_oshea]

bwagner whilst I have never had an experience like that, as we would have been going to omagh or belfast ( which would have been a little more used to southern reg cars ), I do know a fair few northern "unionists" and have met many in my time and they are not all bad, and I was pleasantly suprised to find out that all of the ones ive met, dont have the view that some politicians sprouted in the past i.e. "southern neanderthals running amok in a bandit state".

[youngirish]

Fu*k the north the scum fans . they are so narrow minded and are nothing but a pack of sad bigots....the fact that I couldnt join their fans forum is a joke...i even e-mailed the admin....no reply at all.
Also ,Picture the scene ...myself and my girlfriend driving back from a day trip to Newcastle , we drove through Annalong in a Louth Reg car, and we were stopped by the psni because of a orange march. You would want to see the looks of complete hate we were given...Nothing to do with football true but a good encounter of what the unionists are like. (Im a member of the church of Ireland to which is the funny thing)

Bwagner surely you weren't refused registering for the all inclusive, open minded, welcoming to all men internet site that is www.ourweecountry.co.uk (according to EalingGreen).

Total bull****! Anyone may view entirely for free. Anyone may post after first registering for free. And by paying a one-off £5.00 Fee*, anyone may become a Patron, thereby entitling him/her to start new threads, and also to access threads in the Patron's section (dealing with away travel arrangements etc) in the period prior to those threads being moved to the non-Patron's section.

Enjoy:
www.ourweecountry.co.uk

* - The Patron's Fee was introduced to allow the Board's owner to purchase extra bandwidth.

Here EG I still am locked out of viewing your site. I thought anyone could view for free and join it or is that only at the elite's discretion?