NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[greendeiseboy]

Would of thought by now it's obvious who he wants to play for and its not NI so hands off worthington - why dont you trawl scotland for players where most of your ancestors come from

[eelmonster]

Unfortunately I followed the link and will forever regret those lost seconds. The wee people post the most sickening bile. Obviously they are unaware that the right to Irish citizenship to those born in the North is enshrined in the Agreement ratified by the British and Irish governments in 1998.

[shakermaker1982]

Have a look at this. It's interesting how opinions of his elligibility differ:

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/ind...=15485&st=1155

I was under the assumption if he did play for us against Denmark then he couldn't switch back to NI no matter what's said by EalingGreen on that thread.

I thought the same. Friendly or not.

[EalingGreen]

(I know you're all secretly missing me, so here goes! )

As I see it, the question of Gibson's eligibility for the ROI has yet to be resolved. AFAIK, there was some correspondence last year between FIFA and the FAI, which the latter took to mean that Gibson et al were eligible for the ROI.
However, the IFA felt that the letter in question (referred to by Co.Down Green?) was incorrectly applied by FIFA to players in Gibson's position. Therefore, at the beginning of this year(?), they asked FIFA for a definitive determination. So far, at least, that has not been forthcoming. And in the Sunday Life article yesterday (admittedly not the most reliable of sources), it indicated that the latest news is that FIFA have written to the FAI seeking further information, but have yet to receive a reply. (Which, if true, would surprise me after all this time, seeing as it's such an important issue for the FAI)

Further, the SL quoted a rather "bullish" Howard Wells, possibly indicating that he knows something? If so, this might explain the timing of Worthington's latest intervention.

As for Worthington, I think some of the comments here misunderstand his situation. At the very least, it's merely a case of a new manager doing his best to increase the pool of players available to him, since regardless of the ROI's claim, and the player's own allegiances, the one thing we can say with certainty is that Gibson is eligible for NI. As such, Worthington's actions are no different from what any newly appointed manager's - inc. Steve Staunton when he took over.

Moreover, if the IFA is now convinced that Gibson is NOT eligible for the ROI, then all Worthington is actually saying to the player is that whatever went on in the past, neither he (NW) nor the IFA has closed the door on him.

In which case, it could be argued that his case is somewhat analogous to that of a certain Alan Kernaghan, who badly wanted to play for NI, found that the Rules did not allow this, and therefore had to look "elsewhere" for an Association which could accommodate him with international football...

P.S. IIRC, playing in a friendly international, even at senior level, doesn't tie in a player to any one country, though I'd need to check the Rules again. (Doesn't the Joe Lapira thread cover this?)

[EalingGreen]

Unfortunately I followed the link and will forever regret those lost seconds. The wee people post the most sickening bile. Obviously they are unaware that the right to Irish citizenship to those born in the North is enshrined in the Agreement ratified by the British and Irish governments in 1998.

Citizenship is a political question and eligibility to represent a particular football association is a footballing question.

Governments deal with the former and FIFA with the latter. Therefore, they are not necessarily the same.

[paul_oshea]

Governments deal with the former and FIFA with the latter. Therefore, they are not necessarily the same.

hmmm, i remember a particular foreign minister lobby fifa and it directlyaffected the outcome, so dont be so blind to that. everyone knows ( unfortunately perhaps ) that football and politics do criss-cross.

[EalingGreen]

Would of thought by now it's obvious who he wants to play for and its not NI so hands off worthington - why dont you trawl scotland for players where most of your ancestors come from

I hardly think it appropriate for a supporter of the FAI team to cast aspersions on another Association's non-territorial recruitment policy - especially when it comes to eligbility via ancestry!

As for the NI team which will represent us on Wednesday, I'd be prepared to bet it will have more Irish born and bred players representing it than the ROI equivalent in Denmark...

P.S. As I said earlier, the one thing we can say with certainty in this whole affair is that Gibson is (and always has been) eligible to represent NI.

[paul_oshea]

is that Gibson is (and always has been) eligible to represent NI.

and Ireland.

[EalingGreen]

hmmm, i remember a particular foreign minister lobby fifa and it directlyaffected the outcome, so dont be so blind to that. everyone knows ( unfortunately perhaps ) that football and politics do criss-cross.

No, you remember a particular foreign minister* seek to claim the credit for a particular directive from FIFA. Anyone can write a letter to FIFA (or issue a Press Release) on such matters.

However, FIFA deal with all such issues strictly according to their own long-established procedures. In this case, it is crystal clear that they responded to the IFA, which acted through the usual channels.



* - Unless you find it hard to believe that a politician like Aherne would be so venial as to exploit the efforts of others for his own political gain...

[EalingGreen]

and Ireland.

Does he play Rugby? Or maybe you mean Cricket...

[paul_oshea]

Unless you find it hard to believe that a politician like Aherne would be so venial as to exploit the efforts of others for his own political gain...

No for the gain of his constituents and his fellow countrymen and women

[geysir]

P.S. IIRC, playing in a friendly international, even at senior level, doesn't tie in a player to any one country, though I'd need to check the Rules again. (Doesn't the Joe Lapira thread cover this?)

You are having another one of your Dougal moments.

Because in the Lapira thread you admitted that you had a misconception of the FIFA rules
and wrote

In which case, if Lapira retains hope of representing the USA, he's in for a disappointment...

[youngirish]

You are having another one of your Dougal moments.

In fairness these are often very selective Dougal moments

[eelmonster]

Citizenship is a political question and eligibility to represent a particular football association is a footballing question.

On the contrary, citizenship is precisely the means by which FIFA test a player's eligibility to play for a national team.

[geysir]

As I see it, the question of Gibson's eligibility for the ROI has yet to be resolved. AFAIK, there was some correspondence last year between FIFA and the FAI, which the latter took to mean that Gibson et al were eligible for the ROI.

Darron is eligible now to play for Ireland. FIFA say so. He is registered as an Irish international.
If Darron plays on wed. he is tied forever.
Even if FIFA changed their minds on this issue after Darron has a senior cap the ruling would not apply to Darron.

[EalingGreen]

You are having another one of your Dougal moments.

Because in the Lapira thread you admitted that you had a misconception of the FIFA rules
and wrote

Having just re-read the Lapira thread, the sequence was this. Without my actually checking, I initially stated my belief that a friendly international does not tie a player in.

You then challenged this assertion, with a quotation from FIFA's regulations, which I accepted.

However, Metrostars then contradicted your stance, successfully I thought, by quoting the following from FIFA Regulations:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...5fpdf%5f52.pdf
"2. With the exception of the conditions specified in par. 3 and 4 below, any Player who has already represented one Association in a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition of any category or any type of football may not play an international match for a representative team of another Association."

You didn't accept his interpretation, but he "trumped your ace" by quoting the following Letter from the FAI:

"Hi Ciaran

Thank you for your query. According to FIFA regulations a player who has
already represented one Association in a match (either in full or part) in an
official competition or any category may not play an international match for a
representative team of another Association. However a player may request a
change of Association from FIFA up to his 21st birthday.

As Joe Lapira has only represented the Republic of Ireland in a friendly match,
he would not be tied to this Association.

I hope this information is of assistance to you. For further information you
can find the FIFA regulations on the FIFA website - www.fifa.com.

Kind regards

Mr. Chris Ryan
International Department Manager
Football Association of Ireland"

Consequently, without re-reading all the Regulations for myself, my original opinion is reinforced by Metrostars: i.e. that a friendly full international does not tie in a player.

However, I don't intend to take the trouble to check, since it is not relevant to Gibson's case. That is because he is either eligible for the ROI or he's not. If he is, then he's never going to play for NI, so that's an end to it.

If, however, he is not eligible to play for the ROI, then it is the FAI who will be punished should they select him. If it is merely a friendly, frankly there's not a lot FIFA can do in practical terms. However, should the FAI select an ineligible player for a competitive match, then they risk being docked points etc.
(Btw, it is this lack of an effective sanction for friendlies which I think explains why FIFA make a distinction between friendlies and competitive matches)

As for the player himself, I don't actually know whether they would also punish him. My suspicion (no more than that) is that if a player knows or should know that he is ineligible (e.g. by making a false declaration or profferring false documents etc), then he will also be punished. However, if a player makes an honest mistake*, especially following incorrect information from the Association selecting him, I doubt if FIFA would impose anything more than a nominal penalty (if that).


* - In this case, I have no doubt that Gibson is sincere.

[soccerc]

You didn't accept his interpretation, but he "trumped your ace" by quoting the following Letter from the FAI:

"Hi Ciaran

Thank you for your query. According to FIFA regulations a player who has
already represented one Association in a match (either in full or part) in an
official competition or any category may not play an international match for a
representative team of another Association. However a player may request a
change of Association from FIFA up to his 21st birthday.

As Joe Lapira has only represented the Republic of Ireland in a friendly match,
he would not be tied to this Association.

I hope this information is of assistance to you. For further information you
can find the FIFA regulations on the FIFA website - www.fifa.com.

Kind regards

Mr. Chris Ryan*
International Department Manager
Football Association of Ireland"

..but Chris Ryan is female and not a mister

[geysir]

You didn't accept his interpretation, but he "trumped your ace" by quoting the following Letter from the FAI:

You don't call a supposed letter from the FAI as an ace.
Read my next reply where his arguement was effectivly answered and he had no reply.
Metrostars was referring to a situation that had existed before 2004.

[EalingGreen]

You don't call a supposed letter from the FAI as an ace.
Read my next reply where his arguement was effectivly answered and he had no reply.
Metrostars was referring to a situation that had existed before 2004.

Leaving aside the implication that Metrostars fabricated the ("supposed") letter, perhaps you are correct - frankly, I couldn't be arsed to follow it up further for myself.

However, the question of whether or not a friendly ties a player down to one Association for which he is eligible to the exclusion of another, is not relevant to the case of Darron Gibson.

We know he is eligible to represent the IFA through birthplace, parents, residence etc. We do not know whether he is also eligible to represent the FAI. That is something only FIFA can determine and until they do, no-one outside that organisation is in a position to pontificate.

Until now, I have been genuinely unsure as to which way FIFA will go - I'd have called it 50-50. However, Wells's comments in the SL Article are causing me to edge cautiously towards believing that FIFA may rule against the FAI.

Anyhow, we know that Worthington is keen to resolve this quickly if he is to have any chance, however slim, of having Gibson available for selection before the Euro Qualifiers are over.

I wonder is Stan equally as keen to know? As I said elsewhere, one way of expediting this would be if Stan picked DG for a full competitive match. Not even FIFA could could continue to sit on the fence in the face of a challenge by the ROI's opponents!

[geysir]

Leaving aside the implication that Metrostars fabricated the ("supposed") letter, perhaps you are correct

There is absolutly no hint of an implication that Metrostars fabricated the letter. He merely reposted the letter that was posted in another forum.
He stated that quite clearly and what forum the letter was posted.

Even if the letter did come from the FAI, it is tripe.