NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Not Brazil]

What i am saying is that the guilty party were from a particular place and of a particular persuasion. I think thats a fair assumption to make in such a case. Do you think the PSNI got together and were trying to figure this out and dismissed or downplayed the possibility that it was a fan from the North who holds cetain beliefs as you and a few others are trying to do?

the only thing ill retract from my original post is the use of the word catholic. Ill use the term "Celtic captain" instead.

What I'm suggesting is that you are making assumptions, without any modicum of evidence whatsoever.

Assumptions don't cut it.

You don't know who issued the threats - neither do I - and neither do the PSNI.

I keep an open mind.

It could well have been a, so called, Northern Ireland fan (s) - I doubt most other Northern Ireland fans would consider the perpetrator (s) to be a "fan"...an enemy of the Northern Ireland team, more like.

It could have been a Rangers fan (s) - see your reference to "Celtic Captain".

It could have been an England fan - the favoured international team of choice amongst many ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

It could have been a Celtic fan - disgusted at a Celtic player captaining "the six county statelet".

It could have been a Mansfield Town fan.

It could just have been a deranged nutter.

Truth is - I don't know. Neither do you.

Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

There are bad *******s amongst most fanbases - including those of Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.

Let me be clear:

Whoever did it - I hope they are caught, charged, tried, and convicted. They are vermin.

[shaneker]

Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

There are bad *******s amongst most fanbases - including those of Northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland.

I have largely ignored this forum as its just become a badly-disguised political slanging match which could probably go on for another thousand years, but this REALLY irritates me. What with your earlier mention of kingdomkerry's 'bigotry', your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne and now throwing 'bigotry' at posters on here for concluding - not unreasonably, given the circumstances - that NI fans were responsible for what happened to Neil Lennon, you are continually implying that there are just a few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of you, as if your fans are just the same as ours.

Which is WRONG. We don't throw sectarian slogans into our pre-game anthem. We have no history of booing our own players due to their religious persuasion. And I'm fairly certain that none of our players have ever been threatened with violence immedietly before a match if they decide to play. While I'm not disputing that kingdomkerry is at best ineloquant and at worst inflammatory (it depends on individual beliefs) and that any racist discrimination of any player is absolutely deplorable, the idea that Irish fans are displaying 'bigotry' by attatching these negative labels to NI supporters falls down on the grounds that you have not yet done anything near enough to abolish them. People attatch negative labels to England fans; why? Because they warrant them (listen to the opposing team's national anthem next time England play at Wembley to see what I mean, their match with Germany was a perfect example) and while they may have improved over recent years that does not mean that all is forgotten and they can begin to point the finger at other sets of supporters - which is what you are trying to do. When I hear of NI fans of all backgrounds signing petitions, sending emails and generally showing some legitimate desire to replace the current anthem and the current NI flag in a genuine attempt to make NI a truly cross-community team, then I will be forced to reconsider my view. Our support has minor problems, of course, like the overwhelming majority of fanbases in international football. But stop comparing our misdemeanours to yours because, to be honest, you've been on a way higher level than us on that score for a long, long time.

(I agree with SkStu regarding this thread, I think it should be closed until FIFA give us some indication of what their decision will be. The past few pages have had feck all to do with football.)

[Maroon 7]

And you've completely missed my point. FIFA decides what rules international football follows, not a political document. If these Northern Irish-born players wanted to play for the Republic that badly they'd move down there and serve a period of residence. It's not particularly difficult. The fact that most choose not to implies to me that most don't really care that much which of the two Irish teams they represent as long as they have a good chance of getting to a tournament and doing well on the international stage. With the ROI enjoying the greater success in recent history, you'd expect a few defections

What are you on about?

You expect kids to move south from NI for 2 years so they can qualify even though most teenagers are already at clubs at that age. Let alone uprooting them away from their family or schooling. And you say it's not particularly difficult if they really wanted to play for the ROI? What colour is the sky in your world?

[SkStu]

What I'm suggesting is that you are making assumptions, without any modicum of evidence whatsoever.

Assumptions don't cut it..

im sorry but that is garbage. Nothing would be proven in any aspect of life without an initial assumption. Sometimes an assumption is wrong but sometimes it is bang on the money. Im willing to take the chance that im right on this one. You can continue to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears.

Your attempt to broadbrush the Northen Ireland fanbase, on account of the actions of a person (s) unknown, smacks of overt bigotry.

I simply stated that due to the actions of some NI fans in Windsor Park in the past (ROI game in 93, previous booing of Lennon etc) I am sure that it was a (possibly mentally unstable) NI fan who threatened to murder Neil Lennon because he played for Celtic. I am not broadbrushing anyone or anything, i am just voicing my opinion on this issue based on the circumstances. None of the alternatives in your post seem to be more likely than my own opinion.

I have no doubts that the threats disgusted you. I would expect nothing less from anyone.

[bennocelt]

As for the 'NI isn't a country' chestnut. Footballing and political definitions of a nation aren't the same. Greenland, as well as plenty of areas under Chinese political influence, such as Macau or Hong Kong, wouldn't be considered political states, as, equally, would Northern Ireland, and Wales, Scotland and England not be. However, in terms of football, all of the above are considered national teams. This status is given to them by FIFA. So for the purposes of this debate they are countries.


No, my point is why should they have a right if they weren't born there, or qualify through a parent or grandparent?

Also, for God's sake try and stop being so biased. There is no national team named Ireland, and I think you can be grown-up enough to call Northern Ireland by its actual name rather than referring to it as 'the six counties'.

:

jeez! heh you know they teach Northern Irish history in schools in Wales now, were you just on the mitch those days

the point is many people in NI (or the six counties) dont consider themselves British but consider themselves Irish....in the sense that they support the Republic and would love to play for them
and guess what! The good friday agreement agrees with them, and they are entitled to have passports of the ROI

for the Unionists to admit this would question their whole identity and that would open a whole new can of worms, so its easy just to go with it

Im sure that this case wouldnt hold up in a court of law

and Cymro once again you have shown your ignorance on irish matters,
cant wait to see you next year for the early rounds of the uefa/cl cups where you talk donw irish teams and tell us how great Welsh football is (again)

[Blanchflower]

Unionists have always liked to call themselves British but most of them have never lived in Britain in their lives. As I've said I recognise they're from the UK but British relates to Britain of which the 6 counties are not a part. It may be commonly referred to as such in certain circles but that doesn't make it correct.

Sorry, but "British" relates to the UK and, indeed, even places outside the UK, e.g. Channel Islands, Isle of Man. Even the British Isles! It relates to places within the UK but outside Great Britain, e.g. the Shetland Islands, the Hebrides, Northern Ireland, etc., etc.

Im sure that this case wouldnt hold up in a court of law

Really? What court and on what grounds?

[Blanchflower]

ireland is represented by 32 two counties.

Except there's no Ireland football team. The ROI team represents 26 counties.

The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.

No - the tricolour is the flag of the Republic, i.e. 26 counties. Ditto "Amran na fan". There's not "united Ireland" yet, you know!

[Not Brazil]

Yes you do understand. You know full well that the NI crowd turned on Lennon after he joined Celtic and frankly you're embarrassing yourself to suggest otherwise.

The rest of your post quoted is ******, they're fully supported by NI fans unless they're perceived to flaunt their religion by something like playing for a certain team. The way Lennon was treated by the Windsor Park crowd over a sustained period long before the death threats was a pure disgrace and to be honest you seem to be in complete denial over it.

Far from "being in denial about it", I can assure you that the evening in question was the most sickening evening of my footballing life - I was sick to the pit of my stomach.

You seem to be in denial about the changes that have been made - glowingly praised by Neil Lennon himself.

[Not Brazil]

im sorry but that is garbage. Nothing would be proven in any aspect of life without an initial assumption. Sometimes an assumption is wrong but sometimes it is bang on the money. Im willing to take the chance that im right on this one. You can continue to close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears

You seem to have a closed mind on what happened.

The truth, that you cannot face up to, is that you know no more than I do about who was behind the death threat.

In your haste to vilify Northern Ireland fans, it suits you to believe that you "are on the money".

You simply don't know.

[Absinthe]

For anyone to come out and say it was'nt fans of the north who issued death threats to lennon is the funniest thing i ever heard. Your codding no one but yourselves. Dont insult our intelligence please!

ireland is represented by 32 two counties. "Northern Ireland" represents 6 counties (when players from there dont want to play for Ireland)

The tri colour represents 32 counties

Our Amhrain na bhain represents 32 countries although i accept that 20% of the population do not feel represented by these.

Thats the way it is so those that cant accept it. Tough ****e!!!

I suggest you read your countrys own constitution since the GFA. What utter, utter drivel your are now spurting.

I see that this thread has now descended into pettyness as you look set to loose this case. I can only hope that is still the case.

On the Neil Lennon thing, something someone said at the time still rings true for me, "Whoever phoned in that message, was no fan of Northern Ireland football. Look at the state of our Midfield without him."

I cant tell you whether the perpretrator supports Northern Ireland or not, but it was still a random nutjob that did this.

What have the IFA done since this? They have appointed a Community Relations officer - Michael Boyd. They have launched the Football for All campaign, they have added CCTV to the stadium, and now record the name and Address of everyone who has received a ticket. They have handed out leaflets at matches stating that they will remove anyone from the stadium who is booing their own players.

What did the FAI do, when a large section of your crowd hurled sectarian abuse at a young Danish player (his name escapes me), because they thought he was Peter Lovenkrands, the former Rangers player?

And "ireland is represented by 32 two counties". Yes, thats why you are the Republic of Ireland. You represent 24 Counties on the Island of Ireland. This why I am confident you will not be allowed to pick players from Northern Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

[QUOTE=shanekerins;804665 your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne
[/QUOTE]

You're making things up.

Nowhere have I stated that black players were booed at Lansdowne.

Please desist misrepresenting what I say.

On the death threats - like everyone else on this board, including myself, you don't know who was behind them.

If you do, I ask you to detail your evidence.

[Absinthe]

I have largely ignored this forum as its just become a badly-disguised political slanging match which could probably go on for another thousand years, but this REALLY irritates me. What with your earlier mention of kingdomkerry's 'bigotry', your bringing up booing of black players at Lansdowne and now throwing 'bigotry' at posters on here for concluding - not unreasonably, given the circumstances - that NI fans were responsible for what happened to Neil Lennon, you are continually implying that there are just a few bad eggs spoiling it for the rest of you, as if your fans are just the same as ours.

Which is WRONG. We don't throw sectarian slogans into our pre-game anthem. We have no history of booing our own players due to their religious persuasion. And I'm fairly certain that none of our players have ever been threatened with violence immedietly before a match if they decide to play. While I'm not disputing that kingdomkerry is at best ineloquant and at worst inflammatory (it depends on individual beliefs) and that any racist discrimination of any player is absolutely deplorable, the idea that Irish fans are displaying 'bigotry' by attatching these negative labels to NI supporters falls down on the grounds that you have not yet done anything near enough to abolish them. People attatch negative labels to England fans; why? Because they warrant them (listen to the opposing team's national anthem next time England play at Wembley to see what I mean, their match with Germany was a perfect example) and while they may have improved over recent years that does not mean that all is forgotten and they can begin to point the finger at other sets of supporters - which is what you are trying to do. When I hear of NI fans of all backgrounds signing petitions, sending emails and generally showing some legitimate desire to replace the current anthem and the current NI flag in a genuine attempt to make NI a truly cross-community team, then I will be forced to reconsider my view. Our support has minor problems, of course, like the overwhelming majority of fanbases in international football. But stop comparing our misdemeanours to yours because, to be honest, you've been on a way higher level than us on that score for a long, long time.

(I agree with SkStu regarding this thread, I think it should be closed until FIFA give us some indication of what their decision will be. The past few pages have had feck all to do with football.)

Heres the definition of defamation :- (wheres tuff paddy when you need him?)

There are two versions of defamation, libel and slander. Libel is when the defamation is written down (including email, bulletin boards and websites), and slander is when the incident relates to words spoken.

In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it!

So, if you are going to continue claiming that it was a Northern Ireland fan that phoned the police, please provide your evidence.

FYI, and if I remember correctly, the call was eventually traced back to Portadown, and was attributed to the LVF*. It was also placed around 30 minutes before kickoff, so I can confidently state, there is no chance in hell that the vermin that placed this call was in the Windsor Park crowd that night.

Another thing worth noting, is that this type of event was not unique to Neil Lennon. What changed this time, was the recommendation of the RUC, was that he shouldnt play.

I wonder what your opinions are of the IRA setting a bomb off just outside Windsor after a game, or them threatening to kill George Best if he ever played for Northern Ireland? Just a bit o'craic?

But sure, dont let facts get in the way of slagging anything connected to the "occupied six counties".

*Many of this group of uberprods actually support England. If you dont believe me, then I would suggest you look at the runup to our match against England at Windsor, when Adams and Co didnt know who was the lesser evil, and the vermin that is Billy Hutchinson was parading about proudly in his England shirt.

[Blanchflower]

What have the IFA done since this? They have appointed a Community Relations officer - Michael Boyd. They have launched the Football for All campaign, they have added CCTV to the stadium, and now record the name and Address of everyone who has received a ticket. They have handed out leaflets at matches stating that they will remove anyone from the stadium who is booing their own players.

The IFA had a community relations officer in place long before the Lennon incident and the FFA campaign had also been going before then. You do the IFA a disservice - it was already actively trying to stamp out sectarianism before this.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Far from "being in denial about it", I can assure you that the evening in question was the most sickening evening of my footballing life - I was sick to the pit of my stomach.

You seem to be in denial about the changes that have been made - glowingly praised by Neil Lennon himself.

You're missing the point I'm making. Lennon was routinely booed prior to the death threat and treated despicibly by some NI fans, particulalry the Norway game. This abuse began when he joined Celtic. You seem unable to accept this. It wasn't just one incident on one evening.

I'm well aware that this was a section of the crowd and that decent minded NI fans (including yourself I'm sure) were disgusted by it but the fact remains that prior to the death threat he was given serious abuse by a large section of the NI support. It's not that hard a leap to conclude that the neanderthal that issued the threat was also an NI 'fan'.

While the IFA have done great work in tackling the sectarianism that blighted football north of the border for so long the past can't just be brushed under the carpet much as you'd like it too. Hence your denail.

[galwayhoop]

So, if you are going to continue claiming that it was a Northern Ireland fan that phoned the police, please provide your evidence.

FYI, and if I remember correctly, the call was eventually traced back to Portadown, and was attributed to the LVF".

and your evidence that it was the LVF please.

regardless of what ye lads say here it is generally accepted worldwide that he was booed by his own fans and had to stop playing as his life was threatened by his fans. there may be no proof available but that is what is generally accepted. live with it.

I wonder what your opinions are of the IRA setting a bomb off just outside Windsor after a game, or them threatening to kill George Best if he ever played for Northern Ireland? Just a bit o'craic?

But sure, dont let facts get in the way of slagging anything connected to the "occupied six counties".

juvenile. what do you think about greysteel? this thread is about FOOTBALL not the "TROUBLES"

[paul_oshea]

if it really were an all-inclusive team, then for now at least until something is sorted mutually, lets just talk hypothetically here, but tricolours and union jacks should be allowed, and amhrain na bfiann should be played along with god save the queen, but lets be honest that would never happen as your supporters and people in power would never want it, even though it includes every single person in the 6 counties.

[Blanchflower]

You're missing the point I'm making. Lennon was routinely booed prior to the death threat and treated despicibly by some NI fans, particulalry the Norway game.

That's a lie. Lennon was not "routinely booed" - he was booed at only one match.

[eirebhoy]

What has this thread turned into? I haven't been following it in days so is there any good reason to keep it open? Bare in mind the title of the topic and the forum it's in.

[Blanchflower]

if it really were an all-inclusive team, then for now at least until something is sorted mutually, lets just talk hypothetically here, but tricolours and union jacks should be allowed, and amhrain na bfiann should be played along with god save the queen, but lets be honest that would never happen as your supporters and people in power would never want it, even though it includes every single person in the 6 counties.

Why would the anthem and flag of a different country be played and flown? Is the English flag flown alongside the Scottish flag at Scotland games?

You're mad.

[Kingdom]

Why would the anthem and flag of a different country be played and flown? Is the English flag flown alongside the Scottish flag at Scotland games?

You're mad.

You could make the point the Nationalists feel you are occupying their country and subjecting your culture onto them whilst not respecting theirs whatsoever?

Also is your analogy not a bit odd? I'm sure Scotland and Northern Ireland are on the same level within the UK, yet Scotland fly their own flag at games and use their own anthem. The North don't?

This thread should be closed now or posts such as this (and my own) moved to off-topic.