NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[Cymro]

You've got a cheek Cymro! Wales capped Eastwood purely on the basis that his grandad's caravan had passed through Llanelli once!!!

Actually Eastwood's grandfather was born in Llanelli, and thus Freddie actually legally qualifies for us.

If he'd have turned up for us on the basis that his grandfather's caravan had passed through Llanelli once, I'd have been equally in outrage at the ridiculous precedent that it would set.

But as it is Eastwood is legally allowed to play for Wales, even if I highly doubt he cares that much about his Welsh background.

[youngirish]

having spent virtually years in court for the past decade.

You just can't stay away from those primary schools can you Tuff Paddy?

[paul_oshea]

Does anyone find it strange, ironic, a paradox and funny what the article says though "as the Derry City midfielder has no connections with the Republic." ......

.....reading that, and going along the lines that Derry City are able to play in the League of Ireland, in someway does that not constitute "living in the republic?"( in a naive sort of way ) in the eyes of UEFA given the fact they are playing in an ROI league....

You just can't stay away from those primary schools can you Tuff Paddy?

LOL,

[Cymro]

Did you honestly think that's what I'm trying to say? All I'm saying is that FIFA is a FOOTBALL organisation, so whatever happens I personally (and a lot of other people) will value the GFA over FIFA's ruling in regards to whether someone has the right to be Irish.

That is your opinion. The point is that FIFA make the rules for international football, not world governments, therefore the GFA is not a valid reason for Northern Irish born players who wouldn't qualify for say Australia because all their parents and grandparents were born in NI to qualify for the Republic of Ireland just because they feel Irish and have the right to an Irish passport.

Had he even been to Wales before he was capped? You're failing to grasp the complexities of a unique situation here. I can understand why some NI fans don't want to understand it, but I would have thought you would have seen the bigger picture at play here.

I know he's been to Wales several times because he's played at the Liberty Stadium for Southend on quite a few occasions. Then there's Cardiff's Wrexham's and probably Newport's grounds too (he did play for Grays in the Conference South)

That's irrelevant though. Eastwood still has a legal right to play for us in accordance with FIFA eligibility rules. Normally, Ruaidhri Higgins wouldn't have a right to play for Ireland under FIFA eligibility rules. So why should a document that has no relevance to football change that?

I am trying to see the bigger picture here. Think how many top players NI could be screwed out of if this rule were allowed to stay in place. Potentially, we're talking nearly 40% of their entire pool, if every Northern Irishman who idenitifies as 'Nationalist' decided to take that route. That isn't right. Surely a much better compromise would be for FIFA, the IFA and representatives of the players (who wish to declare for the ROI) to meet and discuss a way that those players could feel proud of whatever national identity they follow and still play for Northern Ireland. Perhaps playing a 'neutral' anthem before Northern Ireland games or whatever. It doesn't matter, just please not this ridiculous rule. It is completely irrational and smacks of FIFA making concessions for one country.

[paul_oshea]

It is completely irrational and smacks of FIFA making concessions for one country.

At least you got one part right..

[jmurphyc]

I am trying to see the bigger picture here. Think how many top players NI could be screwed out of if this rule were allowed to stay in place. Potentially, we're talking nearly 40% of their entire pool, if every Northern Irishman who idenitifies as 'Nationalist' decided to take that route. That isn't right. Surely a much better compromise would be for FIFA, the IFA and representatives of the players (who wish to declare for the ROI) to meet and discuss a way that those players could feel proud of whatever national identity they follow and still play for Northern Ireland. Perhaps playing a 'neutral' anthem before Northern Ireland games or whatever. It doesn't matter, just please not this ridiculous rule. It is completely irrational and smacks of FIFA making concessions for one country.

Cymro, I understand what you're trying to say, but for starters the flag would also have to be changed for some (not all) nationalists to be 'happy' playing for NI. Secondly, some nationalists would never want to play for NI purely because they don't see it as their country (and some wouldn't even see it as a country at all).

[Dodge]

Im still waiting for the ruling though. Maybe he doesnt have an Irish Passport for example, i.e. he could be a special case.

He does have an Irish passport. Its his first call up to an Irish side, unlike Deery (who the IFA had no problme with apparently)

I bet at least 100 posts on this thread are about the same 3/4 points, over and over again

[Wolfie]

.................. the same 3/4 points, over and over again

..................into infinity.........................

[osarusan]

I am trying to see the bigger picture here. Think how many top players NI could be screwed out of if this rule were allowed to stay in place. Potentially, we're talking nearly 40% of their entire pool, if every Northern Irishman who idenitifies as 'Nationalist' decided to take that route. That isn't right.

To be fair Cymro, the potential damage a ruling would do to one of Uefa's members is not in itself a reason not to make that ruling.

Uefa will have to decide if the GFA will have any bearing on their rules. People say they are not bound by the GFA, but are we sure about that? Either way, they're obviously considering the ruling carefully, I'm sure, considering the GFA and European law.

[Maroon 7]

That's irrelevant though. Eastwood still has a legal right to play for us in accordance with FIFA eligibility rules. Normally, Ruaidhri Higgins wouldn't have a right to play for Ireland under FIFA eligibility rules. So why should a document that has no relevance to football change that?

That's why people are saying that the rules are a nonsense when Eastwood (not very Welsh at all) is deemed eligible for Wales when Ruaidhri Higgins (as Irish as anyone else on the island) isn't eligible for Ireland.

[paul_oshea]

Uefa will have to decide if the GFA will have any bearing on their rules. People say they are not bound by the GFA, but are we sure about that? Either way, they're obviously considering the ruling carefully, I'm sure, considering the GFA and European law.

Exactly, why else have a Legal department and lawyers working on this, and previouslly having their lawyers in their legal department send on letters to the FAI and IFA from before. Peopel who think they dont take into account such agreements and legal statutes are naive, football on an international scale is all to do with politics.

[Cymro]

That's why people are saying that the rules are a nonsense when Eastwood (not very Welsh at all) is deemed eligible for Wales when Ruaidhri Higgins (as Irish as anyone else on the island) isn't eligible for Ireland.

But how do you define when someone genuinely wants to compete for a nation (which I'm not denying Higgins does) and when they are taking advantage of the slack proposed eligibility rules to play international football for a team they really do have no connection to simply to boost their career?

The current laws aren't perfect, but I think they're a decent compromise. They ensure that heritage gets its role within eligibility whilst still maintaining a measure of order so we don't have random Brazilians declaring for Saudi Arabia, something that could feasibly be forced through in the future if this loophole (which would be cited as a precedent) were allowed to stand.

To be fair Cymro, the potential damage a ruling would do to one of Uefa's members is not in itself a reason not to make that ruling.

Uefa will have to decide if the GFA will have any bearing on their rules. People say they are not bound by the GFA, but are we sure about that? Either way, they're obviously considering the ruling carefully, I'm sure, considering the GFA and European law.

They are probably considering it because they don't want to be the target of a backlash from Northern Irish nationalists and the players' representatives. Though personally, I think they're on a hiding to nothing as the IFA will undoubtedly fight any ruling that adversely affects them.

Cymro, I understand what you're trying to say, but for starters the flag would also have to be changed for some (not all) nationalists to be 'happy' playing for NI. Secondly, some nationalists would never want to play for NI purely because they don't see it as their country (and some wouldn't even see it as a country at all).

If the flag would have to be changed it would need to be something neutral. I've no problem with the idea and think it would certainly be preferable to the legal loophole that exists at present.

As for the 'NI isn't a country' chestnut. Footballing and political definitions of a nation aren't the same. Greenland, as well as plenty of areas under Chinese political influence, such as Macau or Hong Kong, wouldn't be considered political states, as, equally, would Northern Ireland, and Wales, Scotland and England not be. However, in terms of football, all of the above are considered national teams. This status is given to them by FIFA. So for the purposes of this debate they are countries.

Cymro, so you agree that 40% of the population of the six counties would be robbed of their right to play for Ireland as well presumably?

No, my point is why should they have a right if they weren't born there, or qualify through a parent or grandparent?

Also, for God's sake try and stop being so biased. There is no national team named Ireland, and I think you can be grown-up enough to call Northern Ireland by its actual name rather than referring to it as 'the six counties'.

.....reading that, and going along the lines that Derry City are able to play in the League of Ireland, in someway does that not constitute "living in the republic?"( in a naive sort of way ) in the eyes of UEFA given the fact they are playing in an ROI league....

Swansea City have been playing in the English league for over 125 years, so I must be English!

[geysir]

Also, for God's sake try and stop being so biased. There is no national team named Ireland

Biased?
You are in the Ireland forum. Just because NI have a team doesn´t mean we can´t tell the difference.

[Blanchflower]

If this is true . . . and if I was Higgins, I would be getting myself the finest lawyer in the land. UEFA don't have a leg to stand on. And for all the whinging from other people on here what it boils down to is that an Irishman wants to play football for Ireland. It is a breach of a person's human rights to stop them doing so - and try arguing against that. It's not what you want or what you people think, it's about the individual's beliefs.

What law would your lawyer use to make his case?

And are you using the term "Ireland" deliberately? You do know that the team in question is merely the Republic of Ireland? Amd the player in question is from Northern Ireland?

[Cymro]

Biased?
You are in the Ireland forum. Just because NI have a team doesn´t mean we can´t tell the difference.

Show me the national team named Ireland. There's a national team named Northern Ireland, and one named the Republic of Ireland, but none known as Ireland.

That post was just showing up Tuff Paddy's blatant bias in discussing the issue, anyway. If someone were to refer to the ROI as 'Ireland' under normal circumstances I wouldn't take issue. But the post history of TP in this thread combined with the 'six counties' thing just drew a reaction out of me.

[Not Brazil]

And are you using the term "Ireland" deliberately? You do know that the team in question is merely the Republic of Ireland? Amd the player in question is from Northern Ireland?

I wonder has young Ruairdhi ever played international football before?

I'd be curious to know who for, and which country (ies) he played against.

[Blanchflower]

This has been said numerous times and it's really ****ing me off. You're just saying idiotic things like this to rouse people. These people with no 'connection' to the Republic are nationalists. FIFA currently feels they do have a connection with the Republic so that completely nullifies your argument. Even if FIFA were to rule otherwise, the Good Friday Agreement also states otherwise, and I'd pay much more attention to these than to you.

Their political opinions are irrelevant. If they weren't born there, don't live there and don't even have parents or grandparents, then they don't have connections. The GFA doesn't alter that.

[Blanchflower]

I never said FIFA were bound to the Good Friday Agreement. All I'm saying is that whatever happens in the next while I would still pay much more attention to the GFA than to what FIFA decide.

You'd pay more attention to the GFA than to the decision of the body that actually makes the rules?

Odd.

[Blanchflower]

Did you honestly think that's what I'm trying to say? All I'm saying is that FIFA is a FOOTBALL organisation, so whatever happens I personally (and a lot of other people) will value the GFA over FIFA's ruling in regards to whether someone has the right to be Irish.

FIFA won't be ruling on whether someone has the right to be Irish. They'll be ruling on which of the Irish teams, Irish players are eligible to play for.

[kingdomkerry]

What law would your lawyer use to make his case?

And are you using the term "Ireland" deliberately? You do know that the team in question is merely the Republic of Ireland? Amd the player in question is from Northern Ireland?

This is an Ireland forum everyone calls our team "Ireland". Many people fail to recognise "Northern Ireland" due to it being formed by a manufactured majority and a regieme that oppressed/ is opressing our nation for eight hundred years. Hence many call it "The North/The North East/ The six counties" or anything as long as its not "Northern Ireland" If you cant accept this why not post on "Are-we-a-Country".

On the issue of the topic. It is an obvious breech of human rights preventing players play for their country. I cant for the life of me understand why the IFA cant concentrate on player who actually want to play for their plastic team and state!