NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[geysir]

Because it is unfair on every other country signed up to FIFA, that you can select players outside of your national boundries, who dont meet one of the additional 5 criteria. i.e. residence or grandparents.

As you may know the Annex criteria does not apply to all situations.

The question that FIFA has to answer once and for all is has their mind changed since Oct 2006 when FIFA legal head wrote that NI born Irish citizens can declare for the Republic.

"unfair"
I hear that word a lot in my house.
In choosing whether its unfair to the Federation over unfair to the player, FIFA usually support the player's rights.

[northerncelt]

I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.

This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

[Ash]

Who's to say these potential players haven't lived in the south? Will FIFA be looking for telephone and rates bills to prove residency.

Better still, they could just look for their XtraVision card.
You have to produce a mountain of ID and address proof to get one of those!!!

[Maroon 7]

This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

Absinthe does seem to have a problem comprehending this.

As for nationalists playing for NI I'm all for it. However they should be given the choice to play for NI or the ROI. Of course many of them play and have played for NI in the past as a young footballer is not going to turn down international recognition and all the potential rewards and exposure it brings to his career.

[Absinthe]

This is the ignorant attitide that annoys me the most. U are not gettting the point man. Northern Ireland is not my country. Get over it. It will never be my country.... U are failing to respect my birthright. Im not telling u who u should support, why do u think u can tell me!!

U need an education lesson in what a nationalist is. It may seem an Abrupt/rude way of putting it, but i do not think the "Northern ireland" should exist. Just like you think a "united Ireland" should not exist. its not a warped opinion... its reality!!!

I should have said 'Country of Birth'. Apologies for that.

And, I havent told you or anyone else who they should support, at any point. That is (obviously) entirely your own decision.

And I have never stated that a United Ireland should not exist. How presumptuous of you. Following the Northern Irish football team, does not mean that I am against a United Ireland.

Singing GSTQ doesnt make me a Monarchist either.


ps. The Warped opinion that I perceive you to have, is that if someone is a Nationalist they would never play for Northern Ireland. That is blatently incorrect, due to the number of 'Nationalists'* that I assume have played for NI.

*I have never asked any of them, as I dont care what their Political beliefs are.

[Absinthe]

Well Gibson won't be playing for you again anyway. I hope he goes on to have an amazing career in Green and at OT.

While I think you are indeed correct, bear in mind that FIFA havent actually announced anything yet. The only information carried by the press was supposedly released by the FAI's Delegation to them. I would find it very strange if FIFA made any decisions at that meeting. It is more likely that the FAI Delegation only presented their thoughts on the issue.

Howard Wells is expecting the decision to be made before the end of the month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ls/7060057.stm

[SuperDave]

It's bad news really if you ignore the spin.

DG was always going to be OK. He declared in 2003 before the rule change. To apply rules retrospectively would open a huge can of worms and rule many players ineligible for their national teams. NI would lose Maik Taylor for example.

It does appear we've lost the case. FIFA haven't made an announcement yet but that is the clear interpretation.

The FAI can appeal. Whether they will or not is another matter. They probably have other things on their mind at the moment.

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case. On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

[Ireland4ever]

This is getting boring lads, just going ropund in circles.

[Absinthe]

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case.

They are 100% eligible. No question about it.

On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

I presume that he has an American Passport. On top of that, all he needs is to be living in the country for over 2 years to be eligible.

By the same rules, a Northern Nationalist can make himself eligible by living in the Republic for 2 years.

[SuperDave]

I agree, but, you are not being stopped from playing for your country. Your beliefs/aspirations may prevent you from playing, but you are not being stopped by anyone else from playing for your country.

The problem is certain people don't see northern ireland as their country, but rather see the republic as their country and are, in fact, being denied the opportunity to play for them.

For my two cents, i think it's clear that the irish and english constitutions, written and unwritten, guarantee dual nationality for everyone born in northern ireland. The problem is that the FAI don't represent the island of Ireland, regardless of how much some people wish they did ,they represent the 26 counties. Just like the situation in the UK and Ryan Giggs. Contrary to popular belief, he could never have played for England, despite holding a British passport, as the situation is governed by birth and all his parents and grandparents were born in wales. Holding a passport for Ireland, due to the unique situtation here, does not, unless you have 26-county ancestry, guarantee you a right to play for Ireland.

The Yugoslavia situation shows the same thing, in that player eligibility was similarly limited. I know you are going to throw Kanchelskis at me, but he had some Russian ancestry as well, not just Ukrainian.

[backstothewall]

Good for you.

Whilst you continue to demonise and vilify the National Flag of the majority population in Northern Ireland (presumably the very people you wish to "unite" with) you'll be waiting a very long time for a, so called, "all Ireland" side.

Not being funny - think about it!

Thing is though, it isn't a national flag. It was the flag of a parliament which is now defunct, and has no more legal or national standing than the flag of the Confederacy. Northern Ireland has no flag.

That is not to say it shouldn't have one, it really does need one, but that one isn't acceptable as it represents that government and its action/inactions that we don't need to go into, but we all know about.

If the IFA were serious about change, they would design a new flag, or get to folks on the hill to agree to one, and start playing Danny Boy (which according to the commonwealth games people is Northern Ireland's anthem).

And I also accept the point that the rugby boys need to do exactly the same for their all ireland side, as your folks will never accept the tri-colour as (in your eyes) it represents 35 years of mayhem and murder.

I would actully like to give the north a cheer, (i want to cheer any team of Irishmen) but the flags and songs mean i can't, as i find them offensive. Would the Southern states really expect black people to support them if they were playing Dixie and flying the battle flag of the Confederacy?

[livehead1]

I would actully like to give the north a cheer, (i want to cheer any team of Irishmen) but the flags and songs mean i can't, as i find them offensive.

You shall set he who shall not be named off on one here!!!

[Absinthe]

The problem is certain people don't see northern ireland as their country, but rather see the republic as their country and are, in fact, being denied the opportunity to play for them.

I understand that perfectly. The problem is Northern Nationalists have no ties to the Republic bar their passports. From a FIFA perspective this is generally not enough. The arguement with FIFA is based around Dual Citizenship.

Can someone born in Northern Ireland be Irish and only Irish. This is the whole crux of the decision, if current FIFA rules remain unamended. If the answer is yes, then they are eligible. If the answer is no, then they arent, unless they meet either the grandparent or residency rule.

For my two cents, i think it's clear that the irish and english constitutions, written and unwritten, guarantee dual nationality for everyone born in northern ireland. The problem is that the FAI don't represent the island of Ireland, regardless of how much some people wish they did ,they represent the 26 counties. Just like the situation in the UK and Ryan Giggs. Contrary to popular belief, he could never have played for England, despite holding a British passport, as the situation is governed by birth and all his parents and grandparents were born in wales. Holding a passport for Ireland, due to the unique situtation here, does not, unless you have 26-county ancestry, guarantee you a right to play for Ireland.

The Yugoslavia situation shows the same thing, in that player eligibility was similarly limited. I know you are going to throw Kanchelskis at me, but he had some Russian ancestry as well, not just Ukrainian.

Ironically, he would now be eligable now, as he has a valid passport/citizenship, and has lived in England for more than 2 years. Which was one of my other points, everytime the rules are changed, more people will exploit them to play for other countries. While I dont doubt that many 'Northern Nationalists' have a genuine and complete desire to play for the Republic, I refuse to believe that the likes of Olisadebe do. Whatever the rules are, they wont suit everybody.

[gustavo]

You shall set he who shall not be named off on one here!!!

Why would that set anyone off , I dont think many Unionists would deny the fact they are Irish just that they also would be British along with it

[Drumcondra 69er]

I have absolutely no desire to see an all UK team whatsoever.

I have no doubt that the good people of England, Wales and Scotland feel exactly the same.

Perfectly happy with things just staying the way they are - and whoever pulls on the shirt, and gives it 100%, will have my total support.

That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.

[gspain]

That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.

The home nations bailed out FIFA in the late 40's when they were bankrupt. special match played at Hampden, Jackie Carey was captain of the Rest of europe team. FIFA got the gate money. they enshrined in their constitution that the home nations have rights to separate teams. They also gave them 1 vice president of FIFA.

This is an exception. In theory it could be overturned by a vote of FIFA however there is no stomach anywhere to do this.

While you have a valid example of a FIFA exception there is still no reason as to why they should make an exception in this case. In reality we need to argue under the current FIFA rules or else get them changed. I stil think there is a valid argument under the current rules however that appears to have been lost.

The reality is that relations between the 2 associations on this island are now very bad. The FAI have been to FIFA and most likely lost. Appreciate there is no official decision but that is the word on the street. I expect the next step will be to mend fences etc.

The only way I can see this being challenged is by a player (aka Bosman) challenging it probably with political support.

[Absinthe]

That maybe but neither yourself or Absinthe has answered the point I made pages back rules that rules are already being bent by allowing NI (or England, Scotland and Wales) to compete as sepearte countries whenh they should in fact be represented by one United Kingdom team (Montenegro wasn't allowed a seperate team until it's independence for example). FIFA are haapy enough to have exceptions in certain cases, if an exception was made here there's no reason why it would have to apply worldwide.

Apologies. I didnt think it was a serious question. GSpain has now answered it.

I would want UK team less than a United Ireland team.

Also I found out today that Fifa has more members than the UN.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Apologies. I didnt think it was a serious question. GSpain has now answered it.

I would want UK team less than a United Ireland team.

Also I found out today that Fifa has more members than the UN.

No need to apologise but it was a serious question. I was aware of the historical reasons behind the 4 uk associations being allowed compete, the original point I made was in response to you saying "I dont see why you think Northern Irish Nationalists should have their own rule different from everyone else."

My resposne (if it wasn't clear) was saying that the 4 UK teams already have a rule that's different from anyone else so there are always exceptions.

I was being slightly facetious but would have been interested in your opinion on why you think it's okay for the 4 parts of the UK to have their own rules yet not think it's okay for Northern Nationalsits and be prepared to concede there's an arguement for an exceptional rule to be passed in this instance that wouldn't impact on all FIFA members.

[Metrostars]

What of players whose grandparents were born before partition? They may have a case. On the same note, how the hell is freddy adu eligible to play for the USA? The regulations were changed in response to Qatar trying to buy brazilians (literally giving them passports and cash to play for the nation), but equally apply to the likes of adu, whose mother was a green card lottery winning immigrant.

Adu was 7 when he emigrated with his family to the US, became a citizen at 13 I think. But the likes of Adu, Olisadebe, Deco have actually lived in their new countries for a few years. Has Darron Gibson ever lived in the Republic of Ireland (26 counties)? I understand FIFA's and IFA's position, but don't neccessarily agree with it.

[jmurphyc]

If they seriously make the decision that they reportedly made a few days ago I'm going to e-mail/write to the FAI and Dermot Ahern. There's no way that FIFA can rule that way and stop IRISH people not being allowed to play for the Republic.