NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

[EalingGreen]

Here we go again.

NB people use the terms north or south often as shorthand. Just a turn of phrase.

Plus generally people call the football team in the "south" Ireland and will undoubtably continue to do so. Not out of badness but just because that's what people have called them for donkey's years.

Now call yourselves whatever you want but please don't start lecturing us on what we call ourselves.

And even if someone describes you as "the north" it's surely preferable to being called beggars?

I use the shorthand "NI" or "ROI", because it's, er, the shortest. And "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland" are also the official team names, as determined by FIFA, the governing body in such matters, over 50 years ago. Which is why the IFA and FAI themselves use those terms e.g. on their website and in their programme etc.

And as for fans using the term "Ireland" in everyday use, of course that will happen and there's nothing sinister about it. However, of the two Irish teams, the IFA unquestionably has the prior "right" to do so, since we were the original "Irish Football Association". Which is why FIFA permitted the IFA to continue to use the designation "Ireland" for British Championship matches, a situation which pertained until the IFA dropped it voluntarily (around 1970?). Which is why, btw, I recall chants of "C'mon Ireland" etc at Windsor even after that date.

"And if - you know - your History..."

[paul_oshea]

Personally I'm sure it was the latter, for which I admire him.

Can we rely on you now then to wear the green of Ireland ( not owc) now that you aren't good enough for NI then?

[EalingGreen]

I have to say the guy [Tony Kane] is being very expediant about this and it's a poor show but i presume it's the same choice any dual nationality fella has , look at kanoute who declared for mali to play in the african nations cup.

I have to say one more thing , it's a pity that football and politics are so entangled in this eligibility thing but a nationalist ( or indeed anyone) from Northern Ireland must always be entitled to play for the Irish team or for the Republic if thats what you lads choose to call it. A United Ireland will most likely never come about and let's face it what with further european integration it could become almost irrelevant anyway but the aspiration to it is important to lots of people north and south and east and west of the border.

I have heard that Kane was happy enough to play for NI until the IFA screwed up in registering him for a tournament, meaning he couldn't play. And this (along with possible personal differences with the U-21 manager?) was why he was susceptible to the FAI's offer.

Which would explain why, when no longer in Don Givens's plans, he may be prepared to let bygones be bygones with the IFA and return "home". Of course, there may well be a degree of expediency in all this on his part; however, it also demonstrates that he is clearly not preoccupied or confined by political/non-footballing issues in the same way as e.g. Darron "It's the Republic or nothing" Gibson.

And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer!

[lopez]

Interesting that you pull others for going off topic while continuing to introduce cases of sporadic or historic Northern sectarianism. I guess Gibson wouldn't have been troubled by the anti-semitic events seeing as he's not Jewish

Sorry, but could you tell me once again what some nazi salutes by a group of skangers in the street has to do with Darren Gibson?

btw regarding your LFC point, does that not tell you that prospective RC Linfield pool of players had no issue with playing under the UK flag?

And your point? Millions of Irish emigrated to Britain to work 'under the UK flag.' Thousands of Unionists from the O6C have studied at Dublin University 'under the Irish flag'. I was born 'under the UK flag' but it doesn't make me British. You were born 'under the Irish flag' but you'd rather have what I have declined: British citizenship. (How is the OWC campaign to get the Donegal NI supporters British passports going?)

Does it stop either of us functioning? It seems to me that these players can't win in your (and Not Brazil's) eyes. Play for Linfield and they are British. Don't play for them, and they're bigots.

[lopez]

...And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer!

So tell me, what was your post of complaint following Marty's decision to put up a 'We support our Boys' banner on ourweeminds?

[livehead1]

however, it also demonstrates that he is clearly not preoccupied or confined by political/non-footballing issues in the same way as e.g. Darron "It's the Republic or nothing" Gibson.

And as someone who prefers to keep politics out of football wherever possible, I know which of the two attitudes I prefer!

So tell us o fountain of knowledge what are Gibson's political/non-footballing issues why he won't play for you lot? you would love to put it down to that now.

Maybe he wants to play for a side that has good footballers, great up and coming talent and might actually qualify for a major competition. In fact, Gibson might remember the days of the 1994 world cup or 2002 world cups, he'll hardly remember Northern Ireland last qualifying for a major tournament as he wasn't even born!!

[Not Brazil]

Does it stop either of us functioning? It seems to me that these players can't win in your (and Not Brazil's) eyes. Play for Linfield and they are British. Don't play for them, and they're bigots.

I think you miss the point.

You cited the flying of the Union Flag as a reason why nationalists would not wish to play for Northern Ireland.

I stated that it doesn't seem to be a factor for the many nationalists playing for Linfield.

I don't really care what a Linfield player thinks of flags - I'm more concerned about his desire to win football matches for Linfield.

No player has stated that they wont sign for Linfield because the Union Flag flys at Windsor Park - they sign for Linfield to enhance their footballing careers. Pretty simple really.

Similarly, the flag and anthem issue does not seem to deter Northern unionists from playing for the Ireland rugby team.

Therefore, your citing of the Union Flag at Windsor (which does not fly at Northern Ireland games) as a reason why nationalists may not wish to play for Northern Ireland is rather spurious.

[eelmonster]

However, of the two Irish teams, the IFA unquestionably has the prior "right" to do so, since we were the original "Irish Football Association". Which is why FIFA permitted the IFA to continue to use the designation "Ireland" for British Championship matches, a situation which pertained until the IFA dropped it voluntarily (around 1970?). Which is why, btw, I recall chants of "C'mon Ireland" etc at Windsor even after that date.

"And if - you know - your History..."

The original IFA represented the island of Ireland, not 6 counties in the north east of the country (as it was then ) and certainly didn't fly a defunct sectarian flag.

[EalingGreen]

Can we rely on you now then to wear the green of Ireland ( not owc) now that you aren't good enough for NI then?

Is this addressed to me?

If it is, my attitude is clear. Were I a footballer and good enough, my choice would always be to represent NI.

However, if that were not open to me, I was offered the opportunity by the FAI to represent ROI, and I was eligible under FIFA's rules, then of course I would consider it - just like Kernaghan.

That is because like him, I do not consider that my "choice" (or lack of it) of international football team should determine, or be determined by, my personal political convictions. As such, I take my lead in this from any number of my sporting heroes (e.g. Jennings, O'Neill, Armstrong, Hughes etc) who were always proud to represent their country at football, irrespective of any disdain which this might have generated amongst certain political elements in their background.

In fact, my chief reservation about representing ROI would be that I might be taking the place of some other player who was actually born in the Republic and who desperately wanted it more than me.

Still (to get us right back on topic) if Darron Gibson can opt for ROI in the absence of any recent ancestry from the Republic at all, maybe it shouldn't bother me, as someone who has two grandparents who were born and bred in what is now the Republic!

[lopez]

I think you miss the point.

You cited the flying of the Union Flag as a reason why nationalists would not wish to play for Northern Ireland.

I stated that it doesn't seem to be a factor for the many nationalists playing for Linfield.

I'm not sure if you have noticed the difference, but Linfield are a club who can pick and choose who they employ from a myriad of nationalities. Northern Ireland is, at least for the purposes of FIFA, a 'national team'. I don't mind going to work in Britain under a UJ, but that doesn't mean I am British. For Northern nationalists - your neighbours, perhaps you should try talking to them - the UJ is not the flag of their country. That's one of the many reasons so many support Ireland, and that Gibson wants to play for what he sees as his country.

[as_i_say]

What drivel is this now? Gibson IS Irish and DOES want to play for us (and nobody else, as has been stated categorically by the player) so if he makes it he wont be taking anyones place just his own rightful one.

[paul_oshea]

However, if that were not open to me, I was offered the opportunity by the FAI to represent ROI, and I was eligible under FIFA's rules, then of course I would consider it - just like Kernaghan.

opportunity which then leads to choice. IF I were a footballer, I would consider it too ( what exactly does consider mean EG is it a Yes or a No ) to play for Northern Ireland , but I would choose ROI as has Darron has done, and as you would have done if, when you "considered" it and your choice ended up being ROI. Choice being the operative word here.

[EalingGreen]

Dermot Ahern intervened with FIFA to ensure an Irish passport is allowed for those who wish to play for NI but did not want to obtain a British passport. Dundalk's 2nd most famous supporter (after Maxi) may have caused us some problems here.

Sorry, Gspain, but you, too, are falling for the spin and bluster put about by Ahern in his effort to make political capital from this.

Quite simply, whilst Ahern was putting out Press Releases and giving interviews etc, it was the IFA who actually persuaded them to amend the offending Directive.

Dermot Ahern never even got as far as Switzerland, never mind got to meet anyone important!

[eelmonster]

Similarly, the flag and anthem issue does not seem to deter Northern unionists from playing for the Ireland rugby team.

That's merely diplomatic protocol, neither the ROI flag nor the anthem are used outside of the southern jurisdiction - as witnessed in Ravenhill last week (GSTQ used to be played when the team played in the north).

Northern Ireland's only official flag is the Union flag - I see no reason why a player from a Nationalist background who has decided to play for NI could grumble about the use of the Union flag, or anthem for that matter. It simply illustrates that the organisation is Unionist/Loyalist in outlook - why not follow the example of your fellow UK associations Scotland and Wales and adopt a flag and anthem acceptable to all sections of the community in NI.

[geysir]

Darron's assertion of nationality is his birthright.
A decision made by Darron to play for Ireland is obviously reinforced by his background.
We are not here in this forum to discuss the merits or demerits of the social and political history of NI. We just have to accept and respect the situation as it is now and move forward from here. A decision that Darron made should not be made lightly. I'm glad that Kane can go back offer himself for the NI team, another plus for the FIFA structure which allows this up to the age of 21.
It would appear to me to be a more natural situation for Irish nationals in NI to continue playing with their peers through the NI football structure, it's an easy choice to make.
For those kids like Darron, they should have the structure maintained to facilitate a choice to declare for the Irish team. The FAI for their part should approach this with the interests of the player to the fore.

[livehead1]

Still waiting for an answer from EG as he seems to be knowledgable about some "political/non-footballing" matters that are behind the reason why he wasnt to play for us.

[Not Brazil]

I'm not sure if you have noticed the difference, but Linfield are a club who can pick and choose who they employ from a myriad of nationalities. Northern Ireland is, at least for the purposes of FIFA, a 'national team'. I don't mind going to work in Britain under a UJ, but that doesn't mean I am British. For Northern nationalists - your neighbours, perhaps you should try talking to them - the UJ is not the flag of their country. That's one of the many reasons so many support Ireland, and that Gibson wants to play for what he sees as his country.

Lopez,

The Union Flag flies in no official capacity at Northern Ireland games.

Those eligible, who do not wish to play for Northern Ireland, are no loss in my eyes.

If those players are eligible to play for someone else as well, and choose to do so, good luck to them.

I support players, of whatever background, who play with pride for Northern Ireland in order to try and win football matches.

A definative clearing of the air by FIFA/IFA/FAI is what is required at this point.

Whatever the outcome, we move on along our seperate paths.

[lopez]

Lopez,

The Union Flag flies in no official capacity at Northern Ireland games.

I didn't say it flies now. But it has in the lifetime of DG.

[Not Brazil]

That's merely diplomatic protocol, neither the ROI flag nor the anthem are used outside of the southern jurisdiction - as witnessed in Ravenhill last week (GSTQ used to be played when the team played in the north).

The game in Belfast was deemed an "away" fixture by the IRFU.

"Protocol" only seems to work one way.

I'm sure it comes as a great shock to many people that Belfast is not in Ireland - at least according to the brains at the IRFU.

[geysir]

Sorry, Gspain, but you, too, are falling for the spin and bluster put about by Ahern in his effort to make political capital from this.

Quite simply, whilst Ahern was putting out Press Releases and giving interviews etc, it was the IFA who actually persuaded them to amend the offending Directive.

Dermot Ahern never even got as far as Switzerland, never mind got to meet anyone important!

I agree with you re Aherne, part of his job though is to protect the interests of Irish nationals, in this matter he should have directed behind the scenes support to the IFA.
I suspect that the public support from the FAI might have stunned the IFA nobs for a short while, wondering if the IFA making a case for the 2 passport ID thing was a good or bad thing for NI football