Celtic Discussion

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 10:00 AM

Hello I hope you don't mind a Scotsman joining your Forum.

I was just reading some of the comments about Glasgow Celtic.

I'm a huge Celtic fan and was a wee bit surprised at some of the reactions to the Caley Thistle result. - Poor display from Celtic.

I can understand what you mean about the "Plastic Paddy's" - Alot of Celtic fans do go OTT with the whole Irish thing.

Personally I don't - I'm not Irish and don't pretend to be.

Alot of genuine Celtic fans do have stong Irish links and as you are all well aware an Irish priest did start the football club and named Celtic so that Scots and Irish could suport the team.

Obviously at that time alot of Irish immigrants were in Glasgow at that point and the majority of the fans were Irish - As time went on alot of Scottish fans also moved into the East End of Glasgow and supported the Hoops.

The reason the Tri-Colour and the Irish songs are song are part to keep their heritage from an Irish beginning to unfortunately secterian reasons.

Celtic are as much as Scottish team as an Irish and the combination of both similar cultures creats a fantastic team and I am proud to be associated with such a great club.

I have also been privileged enough to meet some fantastic Irish people.

Most Scots and in particular Celtic fans don't class ourselves as being British - To me British is being English and I'm certailnly not English!!

Thanks and I hope I've not offended or upset anyone and I hope I'll be welcomed back to your Forum as I would like to talk with some Irish and also get their point of view on Football.

Ta Robert

**The Sheliban** · 08/04/2003, 11:19 AM

Just a couple of points, Robert.
Hibernians were also founded by the Irish, yet there is no mad scramble over here to support them. Which leads one to assume that Celtic fans are mere glory hunters. Would they still be as supported if they were playing Falkirk and Stenhousemuir every week.
The other point is that over here, Celtic are an easy team to support. Their only rivals are Rangers, and not many people are going to walk around in a Rangers' shirt, so its safe enough. An "easy" option.
What bugs a lot of us though, is the fact that thousands of people over here support a Scottish team, when football grounds over here are three-quarters empty. I'm sure the same is true in Scotland - people from say, Stranraer or Dumfries will support Celtic or Rangers, rather than the local side. And, whatever about the quality of our league, its definitely more exciting than the highly predictable fare served up in Caledonia.

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 12:17 PM

That's true Celtic and Hibs were founded by Irish - Sure there are some glory hunters in Celtic fans but that is the same in any Big club.

Bear in mind though Glasgow is a bigger place than Edinburgh and with this in mind Glasgow teams have generally large fan bases.

Even Partick Thistle have a large following.

The Spl is predictable but so is the Premiership - Now I'm not trying to suggest that the Spl has the same quality as the Pemiership because it has nowhere near the quslity of the Premiership.

The Premiership certainly is entertaining but how many teams can win this league - Man Utd and Arsenal.

Scots acknowledge the standard of our league is poor and we will be the first to admit that - Don't know much about the Irish league so I cannot comment on the quality of this - Would be unfair of me to pass comment on something I've not seen.

I was just a wee bit surprised at some negativity coming Celtic's way especially from Ireland.

I always thought Scotland and Ireland had some affiliation - Sorry if anyone takes offence as none intended.

One of the comments was calling us West Brits B@st@rds.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and that's respected - I certainly hate being called British.

It surprises me the number of Irish who support English teams.

Hopefully the Spl can improve and I know that alot of Irish fans still support the Hoops and long may this continue.

The combination of Irish and Scots culture is unique and I love it.

Thanks for listening to a de-ranged Scotsman.

**Dodge** · 08/04/2003, 12:33 PM

The problem isn't with any Scots supporting Celtic and being proud of their heritage. the problem is with Irsih people supporting Celtic because Celtic are Irish, when they won't support any of the local teams.

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 1:04 PM

Right Ok I see where you are coming from.

Alot of Scots get annoyed at that also. - Why not support your local team??

I understand this - I support Celtic for a number of reasons.

I was brought up with the glory of Celtic through family and friends and also that fact that I am RC has bearing on this as well.

The problem Scotland has, is that it's a small country like Ireland and most people do support Celtic or Rangers.

I am originally from a place called Airdrie and they have a local team but my team is Celtic and always has been.

Airdrie still gets a large following however.

So do some Irish people hate Celtic as a result of this?

**The Sheliban** · 08/04/2003, 1:11 PM

Its actually quite a new phenomenon.
For years, if you spoke out against Celtic, it was almost like being anti-Irish.
However crowds are slowly starting to rise in the eL, and with it, some fans are standing back and saying , hey, isn't it more anti-Irish to be following a British team than an Irish one?
Having said that, eL followers are still very much in a minority in a country that will follow Arsenal. Liverpool and Man Utd, and came out and cheered for Spurs when they lost 3-1 to Bohemians recently. Celtic are still huge over here, even among the eL contingent, so if some of us appear to be anti-Celtic, we can't claim to be representative of the great unwashed.

**Dodge** · 08/04/2003, 1:21 PM

Yeah as Sheliban said we're definitely in the minority and thats the problem. If our league was getting fairly big crowds and the media attention we think it deserves, nobody would mind anybody having Celtic as their second team. Its just when I hear people claiming to support Celtic solely on the basis of their Irish connections and paying no attention to the “REAL IRISH” teams, thats when I get annoyed

**Macy** · 08/04/2003, 1:22 PM

Originally posted by Scotsman
So do some Irish people hate Celtic as a result of this?

Pretty much.... Like Dodge was saying it's whole Celtic are Irish bullsh!t.... No one doubts they were founded by an Irish manand garner support from the Irish emigrants, but that doesn't make them an Irish team.... Irish teams play in the National League of Ireland, not the SPL, but the way the bar stoolers and the media go on you'd swear that they were the national team or something.....

There are plently of other teams that have an "Irish/RC Tradition", and not just Hibs and Dundee (United?).... For example everyone's arch nemisis Manchester United has always had strong Irish links (e.g. When they were renamed from Newton Heath the two choices were Manchester United and Manchester Celtic; They are traditionally the catholic club of Manchester; It was often said United had the best youth system because they had the best scouting network - all the catholic priests; Right into the 80's had a RC Chaplin etc etc), yet nobody would claim they are an irish club...

SPL and EPL are foreign leagues, containing foreign clubs - eL fans have a problem that Irish people support these above, and to the detriment of, our own clubs..... whilst at the same time travelling week in week out in their hundreds to spout republican bull sh!t in a scottish ground...

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 1:28 PM

I have to say I'm enjoying this wee conversation - Have to get out more!!!

Celtic to me is more than a Football team - I absolutely love the Hoops and going to Celtic games are amazing!!!

Paradise is absolutely fantastic - The Spl is poor and as a Scotsman is pains me to admit this - Look at Scotland's national team now - We've fell away beyond believe.

What annoys me more is that the English just love to see the Scots fall flat on their face and when Celtic beat Blackburn and Liverpool, in the manner they did so brings me great joy.

From the Premiership I like Man Utd.

One of the posts condoned the spit of the Liverpool player and said it was magic - His post read as if he really hated Celtic fans.

Does the fact that Celtic sing Irish tunes and fly Tri-Colurs annoy Irish people??

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 2:23 PM

It seems this issue is also in Scotland as well.

Most of you seem to be annoyed with the fact that alot of your fellow countrymen support a Scottish team and not an Irish team.

Alot of people in Scotland seem to be annoyed at how much Celtic continue the irish theme.

It's a tricky situation - Celtic don't want to lose the fact that they were started by an Irishman and that has to be applauded.

Alot of people do jump on the bandwagon and people who have no connection with Ireland claim to have.

Celtic Football Club is not just about that - They are also very much Scottish - They were founded in Scotland, play in the Spl - When they won in 1967 all the players were from Scotland.

Celtic as a club are Scots/Irish and as I have said before brings a brilliant mix as Scots and Irish as far I'm concerned are the best people in the world.

Alot of the reasons the flags are flown etc is due to religion.

As well as keeping the heritage of the founder/s there is also the bigoted side to the equation. People who have no connection with Ireland will fly flags, sing the rebels.

Everyone or most know that Rangers would not sign catholics and Celtic was started by catholics.

I personally feel there is too much " I'm Irish" when really there not Irish - Maybe their Great, Great, Great Grandparents were.

In my mother's side nearly ALL have an Irish surname but I don't think I'm Irish - Certainly I have soft spot for the Irish.

The point I'm trying make, all be it badly, is that Celtic's intentions are genuine but maybe they do take it a wee bit too far.

Thanks - Again if anyone was annoyed or offended it was not my intention.

**The Sheliban** · 08/04/2003, 2:31 PM

I think most of our ire is directed, not at Celtic, but at the barstool brigade over here.
What are Celtic's PR people supposed to do - make themselves unappealing to thousands of Irish fans? Fair play to Celtic, if we could get a quarter of their marketing acumen, we'd have no complaints.
Basically we moan about the barstool brigade, but basically our Pr/ marketing has been pathetic, so its hardly surprising that this monster has been created [the barstool fan, not Celtic!]

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 2:42 PM

So what's the Irish league like then - Is the quality good - How many teams compete.

I thought there was a bigger demand for the Gaelic sport.

Is that the case??

**wws** · 08/04/2003, 3:20 PM

its hard to say
for instance if you're a hardcore fan , like basically ppl who post on these message boards than watching your beloved UCD slug it out to a glorious no score draw with league champions Bohemians may be the best thing you've seen football wise but a neutral watchin the same game would go "eh this place is a dump, theres no fans, why are those players murdering that football?" etc etc

basically the quality is hit and miss with the general media perception here being that it has suddenly improved dramitaclly in the last 2 years (which is basically untrue as the standard has always been ok its just no-one in the media gave a f.uck before)

Brian Kerr managed Ireland to a win over scotland recently and whatever about his track record in youth football he's basically a product of the league of ireland scene and is still closely related to saint patricks athletic

once he made it to the ireland job people started to have more "respect" for their own homegrown league and the media are definitely less inclined to dismiss it out of hand as they did pre brian kerr.

The current Irish asst manager, noel o reilly coached Saint Pats to a league win as recently as 1998 so people are beginning to acknowledge that the quality of our homegrown football people can be world class at times

the players now are full time in nearly half of the prem clubs and all clubs will probably follow this route now.

in europe

recent times v scots

pats drew with celtic 0-0 parkhead
bohs knocked out aberdeen
shels got a result v killie and scored 3 v rangers!

so irish teams would fancy having a go at even the biggest of scots clubs

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 4:03 PM

Cool

Any team that beats Rangers is OK with me!!!

Aberdeen are pants - they used to be really good - 80's winning Europe etc...

Killie - Pretty boring - Just like alot of Scottish teams.

Some good young Bhoys coming through in Scotland and hopefully that can help the Scottish game.

Motherwell has McFadden - Have you seen him play?? - Exciting.

He's a wee bit of a hot head but should come good.

Maloney, Smith, Crainey - These are all Celtic players.

Hopefully the Scottish league can get interesting, although I cannot see in the near future - Who knows with the current climate finicially!!

If not then the Scottish National team MUST get better as they are pants at the moment.

I'd like to see a Scottish/Irish league - I think that would be good - Don't know if it would work though.

I don't want Celtic to move to the Premiership.

I think a European league sounds good.

Maybe Irish teams could get in that as well.

Just a pity Scotland and Ireland 2008 fell through - what a party that would have been!!!

Thanks

**Real ale Madrid** · 08/04/2003, 5:36 PM

$hel$ scored 3 against rangers............but they didn't win!

rangers won 7-3 on aggregate.

**Scotsman** · 08/04/2003, 6:02 PM

I'd love to see Colin Healy play for the Hoops again.

He's a very good player and I think with Paul Lambert could link up well - Celtic's midfiled is lacking a playmaker - I know Colin Healy is not a playmaker but in my opinion merits a start over Neil Lennon.

Ireland has some great players and Scotland has none apart from prospects.

cfcgirl · 08/04/2003, 7:24 PM

ireland has some great players but far to often there not irish enoughh for my likeing. there grandparents are irish.I f my grandparents were english i wouldnt consider my self playing for england. in time hopefully more loi players will play for there country.

thecorner · 08/04/2003, 8:48 PM

how is liam miller doing over. us corkonians like to watch our fellow corkmen are doing over the sea

**eoinh** · 08/04/2003, 9:00 PM

welcome!

The reason i dont like celtic is because of all the irish who go over to scotland and support a scottish team and they think that makes them more irish. you dont get many scotish celtic fans coming over here to watch matchs and fair dues why should they?

AS for scottish people being British, it was actually the scotch who made the english accept the term British. The english refused the first act of union because they didnt want to be known as British! The English are Anglo-saxon/Germanic while the Scots, welsh and Cornish are British Celts. The word Briton actually has nothing to do with engand - its actually a celtic term

**Colm** · 08/04/2003, 9:23 PM

The reason I can't stand Irish people supporting Celtic is simply because they do so over Irish teams. When City played Celtic a few years ago there were thousands of Cork people in the ground wearing Celtic jerseys, that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Another reason is that I hate the youngfellas (and old fellas in certain cases!) who go around in Celtic jerseys spouting IRA rubbish in order to appear like a hard man and impress their friends. They think that it makes them proud Irish men when, in truth, it does the exact opposite.