Celtic Discussion

**Beavis** · 13/11/2003, 3:17 PM

I wonder how many irish people are aware of this
You certainly know your sh!t

**lopez** · 14/11/2003, 1:17 AM

After a undistinguished career at a secular English comprehensive school I spent 10 years at the university of life before studying Irish Studies at a 'New University' (ie sh!te former polytechnic). However even in an Irish context what I studied is small fry (basic Act of Union to Modern day) so pre 1801 is a grey area to me. I do however read a lot of books on Irish history, just to keep my hand in, so to speak.

Too many people know **** all about their own country. The trouble is with Ireland is that there is so much to know. In the English language, there are probably half of a dozen decent books on Swedish history (current pop: 8.9m) that anybody would need to read. On Ireland, this list runs into hundreds. Thanx to Gary Espana, I learned something today about the painting by Pieter Van der Meulen of the Pope blessing KB. In 1934, John Nixon MP (Stormont) - I think he was the RIC inspector who was involved in a murder of a family on the Falls in 1920/1?? - done a Rambo and wrecked the painting. It was taken away to be 'restored' but disappeared.

It is currently worth �1/2M: See www.fantompowa.net/Flame/pope_cut_out_of_.htm
This sort of history will **** off many people. Hence the attempt at destroying the painting.

As agent Mulder and Scully would say: 'The truth is out there.' Well it is if you keep an open mind, and use Yahoo! or Google.

And to keep people who want to talk about Celtic happy, yeah it's an Irish club with a Scottish accent and too many people who don't know their history supporting them.

**Plastic Paddy** · 14/11/2003, 7:46 AM

On a late turn yesterday, Senor?

From your previous posts, I had a feeling you'd studied this before. I did a Masters in Irish Studies myself at Liverpool University. I know more about Irish history than I do about that of Britain, despite my first degree containing large elements of British political history. Ahh, the lengths us 2G will go to...

PP

(On another note, I'd promised myself that despite being a Celtic fan, I wasn't going to post on this thread. That's blown that then...)

**lopez** · 14/11/2003, 10:06 AM

Liverpool must have been brilliant. I went to North London as a 'mature student' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and majored in Irish studies (I minored - surprise, surprise

- in Spanish). I was still working and starting a family, so I wanted something that was going to keep me interested. Done my MA there as well in Modern European studies which was equally interesting (my dissertation was on Black migration into Ireland).

Cultural studies is always geting slagged, but my degree contained large parts of history and English literature associated with those subjects, so I think its just snobbery. To be fair, NL (now London Metropolitan) has one of the biggest centres of books on Ireland in the country.

**Beavis** · 14/11/2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Ahh, the lengths us 2G will go to...

It's true.I think growing up away from what you'd call home makes you appreciate it all the more.

These days too many people here don't even care for their heritage.I think this explains the growing Sinn Fein vote in the south;people who want to remain irish and not european, fear that our culture willl gradually fade out unless something is done.

**lopez** · 14/11/2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Beavis
It's true.I think growing up away from what you'd call home makes you appreciate it all the more.

These days too many people here don't even care for their heritage.I think this explains the growing Sinn Fein vote in the south;people who want to remain irish and not european, fear that our culture willl gradually fade out unless something is done.

It's already started, and the most obvious is Man Ure shirts everywhere. I know this discussion is about Celtic (and after 43 pages we all have to agree to disagree) but the support for English clubs sends me loco.

OK Man Ure are a top club, but what about the Dublin supporters clubs for Leicester City, Ipswich Town, Bradford City, etc.? These crap teams? I've met people who support sh!te English teams on Ireland trips and it's no wonder blokes on here bust a cojon on why they aren't down at their local EL side.

BTW I notice from your profile that you are a Consultant Gynaecologist. I work in a similar job. I too have to look at ****s all day.

**Beavis** · 14/11/2003, 12:19 PM

A lad started a thread a week or two back wondering was there any Sheffield United fans to start a fan club.I felt like asking what exactly had some dreary town in Middle England had to do with him.I didn't cos it was his first post and I didn't want to seem like an @rsehole.
I hear it everyday though,'I've supported Man U since I was a kid.'
I ask why,'oh I like the way they play'.Basically 'they're the best team I know so I can't lose'

.

I confess to not being a major El fan(look out for Waterford cos the oul fella is a big fan) but I watch English football to see how our boys are getting on and my argument is that you want to watch the best you have to offer and ours goes abroad.

Celtic has an undeniable link with this country and I am a fan but I don't have the attitude that Celtic fans are any more irish than anyone else.Me and a friend from work(big Shamrock Rovers fan) were in the pub talking to a Celtic fan last weekend.My mate said he didn't support Celtic just Rovers and the other lad called him a 'hun'.

PS Lopez,I thought in spelling consultant gynaecologist wrong would give away that this wasn't in fact my profession!

**Junior** · 14/11/2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by lopez
Liverpool must have been brilliant. I went to North London as a 'mature student' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and majored in Irish studies (I minored - surprise, surprise - in Spanish). I was still working and starting a family, so I wanted something that was going to keep me interested. Done my MA there as well in Modern European studies which was equally interesting (my dissertation was on Black migration into Ireland).

Cultural studies is always geting slagged, but my degree contained large parts of history and English literature associated with those subjects, so I think its just snobbery. To be fair, NL (now London Metropolitan) has one of the biggest centres of books on Ireland in the country.

Hi Lopez/PP

When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time.

Since I moved back to Manchester, i've fancied continuing the course/starting again, but have struggled to find it on anywhere local, surprising as I just assumed that all the major universities would do it.

Admittedly have I haven't looked too hard in locating a course, could have a look at Liverpool I suppose, but it would need to be an evening/weekend type arrangement.

I don't suppose either of you, or anyone else out there has any ideas?

Cheers, Jnr

PS: Mod: I know this is strictly not a general footie question but Il hope you can forgive me

**lopez** · 14/11/2003, 1:19 PM

Originally posted by Beavis
PS Lopez,I thought in spelling consultant gynaecologist wrong would give away that this wasn't in fact my profession!

I too didn't want to sound like a smart@rse either in case you didn't make a deliberate mistake in the spelling, but I would have put money on you not being a gynaecologist. After a day of that sort of thing and I don't think you'd have the stomach for dinner let alone talking footie/politics/culture.

The argument about the quality of Irish football is a tricky one. I saw Longford against some side a few weeks back (not the cup final mind) in a pub with an RTE feed and I thought the standard was good - OK not la liga, but Div 2 at the very least.

But I also remember a visit to Bishopstown in 95 to watch Cork and it depressed me. A new out of town stadium that was already looking knackered with a crowd of 200 or so watching a dire game. Meanwhile, and I've said this story before so please be free to yawn, a bloke I knew was up in Tipp playing in a Munster Cup game for (I think it was Tramore Athletic??) in front of over a thousand. He was a Cork City fan who used to go to the games at Turner's Cross and said that he has no car and even if he had he wanted to have a drink, so he was refusing to go and watch them at Bishopstown.

I think things are improving.

Originally posted by Junior
Hi Lopez/PP
When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time.

I'm from Hemel myself, so I know the journey to Holloway Road. I used to work late at Golders Green so I planned work to follow my daytime lectures. Where did you work/live while in this wonderful cultural oasis? I'd say Manchester must be pretty boring after Hemel?

Best of luck with finding a course, but apart from Luton, Liverpool and St Marys in W London, I don't know of anywhere else.

**Junior** · 14/11/2003, 3:17 PM

Originally posted by lopez

I'm from Hemel myself, so I know the journey to Holloway Road. I used to work late at Golders Green so I planned work to follow my daytime lectures. Where did you work/live while in this wonderful cultural oasis? I'd say Manchester must be pretty boring after Hemel?

Best of luck with finding a course, but apart from Luton, Liverpool and St Marys in W London, I don't know of anywhere else.

Worked in Maylands Ave, Siemens building down the bottom end (changed its name now). Still get down there a couple of times a month for meetings etc...

Can't say I had too many sessions in Hemel, couple of lunchtime bevvies / christmas do at the BP offices near the hotel by our office was about as exciting as it got.

Lived in Harrow and Ealing during my time darn sarf..

Emailed Liverpool this afternoon while I was thinking about it, perhaps they do distance learning or similar - that however requires serious commitment, what with our forthcoming WC06 qualifiers.......ah, im sure you know the script!!!!!

**lopez** · 14/11/2003, 6:09 PM

Junior: I know the place. My old man used to work in Lucas down there but since been torn down.

Obviously joking about HH and culture, although the aforementioned Pope Adrian IV was born just outside (hence Breakspear Way onto the M1).

I don't drink there often either unless you count the front room. Still not as bad as neighbouring Chesham...have you seen Deliverance?...or Hatfield which I see they've made life there into a film called The Martins starring Kathy Burke and Lee Evans. It's Ballymun without the red lemonade.

**Rebel Bhoy** · 20/11/2003, 10:00 AM

I've just joined up and it seems as though I have missed all the furore over my team but seem to have stumbled into something else entirely. I went to St Mary's in Twickenham to do Irish Studies and last year I went to North London (now London Met) to try and learn a bit of Irish. I wasn't much good at it. I found that you were spot on aboyut the Irish books they have at north London. So much so that the local libraries in Haringey and Islington ended up throwing out a load of Irish books because NL was the best resourced library in this area.
The reason that there are so many studies/books written about the Irish is the spread of the diaspora is so wide and varied that we basically just make good reading!

**Plastic Paddy** · 24/11/2003, 2:38 PM

Originally posted by Junior
Hi Lopez/PP

When I was wokring in Hemel for a few years, I did an evening course in Irish studies at North London, really enjoyed it but only managed the one term as the journey after work was a struggle to get there on time...

I don't suppose either of you, or anyone else out there has any ideas?

Junior

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

One of the places I also tried was the old Bath CHE, which I believe is now Bath Spa University College. IIRC, they did a correspondence/residential style course, which might suit your needs. Bath was the home to the British Association for Irish Studies, which has now moved to Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London. Their website is at http://www.english.ltsn.ac.uk/bais/ and will probably have all the answers you need. If not, they'll know exactly who does.

Hope that's of some use.

Originally posted by Rebel Bhoy
I've just joined up and it seems as though I have missed all the furore over my team but seem to have stumbled into something else entirely.

Despite being a Celtic fan, I tried to avoid joining this debate too, Rebel Bhoy. You get sucked in eventually...

On the subject of Irish books and North London, I always used to frequent the Four Provinces bookshop in Archway. Wonderful place and knowledgeable staff too. Another reason why the aforementioned libraries were devoid of stock.

PP

PS Nice Terence MacSwiney quote btw...

**Rebel Bhoy** · 24/11/2003, 3:52 PM

Cheers PP. The one in Archway was Green Ink wasn't it? They were fantastic in there. Its been closed a while now. I think the guy who owned it sold up and moved back to Ireland. The 4 provinces is on the Grays inn road. About 300 yards from where I am sat right now. Its much smaller, but the staff really know their stuff and are always up for a chat about this and that.
Its my favourite subject talking about Celtic and Ireland so fignting the same fight over and over again suits me just fine as I'm not so smart so its suits my arguing style!!!
I'm glad that there are folk out there from 'a land beyond the wave' who choose to follow the history af their 'sire-land' and not just on the superficial levels of sport.

**Junior** · 24/11/2003, 6:42 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Junior

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

One of the places I also tried was the old Bath CHE, which I believe is now Bath Spa University College. IIRC, they did a correspondence/residential style course, which might suit your needs. Bath was the home to the British Association for Irish Studies, which has now moved to Royal Holloway College, part of the University of London. Their website is at http://www.english.ltsn.ac.uk/bais/ and will probably have all the answers you need. If not, they'll know exactly who does.

Hope that's of some use.

Cheers PP, ironically I emailed them about 3hrs ago, asking for help in locating a course!! Sounds like the correspondence/residential course would be ideal if they still do it. Have also got on to Liverpool Uni as well, though I think P/T is the best they can offer and that will probably clash with work!!

I'll keep you posted, thanks for the help.

Jnr

**A face** · 05/01/2004, 9:20 PM

[COLOR=firebrick][SIZE=8]"celtic could accept awards from the kkk for humanatarian work,and their "fans" would justify it."[/SIZE][/COLOR]

**RebelBhoy** · 06/01/2004, 2:49 PM

eh.. good one! not really though.

You say "fans". Does that describe the 80,000-100,000 people who went ot seville knowing they probably would'nt get a ticket and drank and sang with opposing fans not once causing trouble?

**Gary** · 06/01/2004, 6:40 PM

Does that describe the 80,000-100,000 people who went ot seville knowing they probably would'nt get a ticket and drank and sang

Kinda stupid spending all that money to go to watch a match in the pub i would have thought.

That said, most (OIrish) Sellthick fans have never been inside a football ground ever to see a live match in their lives and would only miss the replays and the commentary etc.

**liam88** · 06/01/2004, 8:06 PM

errrrr yeah-best fans by both UEFA and FIFA involved with the KKK hmmm mabye not. Irish Celtic fans never being in the stadium that's a laugh, even at Fulham in a pre-season friendly I met hundreds-the whole place was Irish!

"Kinda stupid spending all that money to go to watch a match in the pub i would have thought"

No no no-that's called Loy-al-ty , it means you respect your club and will go all that way to represent it even if you havent got a ticket. Try it- Loy-al-ty