Henry Joy McCracken if he were alive today would probably be a Hibernian fan. Hibs fans sometimes fly the green flag which was the flag flown by the men of 1798. Also McCracken being a Presbyterian and Republican would identify with the fact that Hibs draw their support from both Catholics and Protestants.
Last edited by Paddy Ramone; 10/09/2003 at 9:50 AM.
What you have to understand is that these Irish boys will think you are a "Plastic Paddy".
Glad I don't have that problem.
The real Irish culture that Celtic had is immalgameted with Scottush culture - Not too unsimilar.
This is old ground - I'll leave it at that
See we have Dani and De La Pena on trial at the moment??
Super
Laugh it off all ye like mate but if people object to a term being used against them as it causes offence and indeed leads to violence you continue to use it your a racist!Originally posted by Conor74
LOL!!!
Let's not get too hysterical because you got a bloody nose at school. If you think Plastic Paddies are a new race, fair play to you. Get a grant and go live with them for a few years and write a book telling us about their customs and traditions.
I've heard it all here, I must say. Dear me, calling someone "plastic" is racist? Hilarious stuff, LH, absolutely priceless...
Times are changing in Ireland mate and its upto you if ye want to live in the past or not!
The main reason I stay away from league of Ireland grounds Austim is the fans!
Actaully its probably why alot of people stay away from league of ireland grounds.......
Most of them just go as an excuse to get away from the wife and stand there giving out about everything that moves.
You know the type they can be found at any bar in Ireland sitting around solving the problems of the world to their own satisfaction and god forbid anyone should have an opinion that doesnt conform to their thinking.
Just look through some of the threads on these boards to see what I mean.
Leave them to it I say
My advice to ye is to stick with Celtic fc, ye cant go wrong!
Hail Hail
Personally I dont see Irish and Scottish culture and history as being at all similar which is the way it should be!Originally posted by Scotsman
The real Irish culture that Celtic had is immalgameted with Scottush culture - Not too unsimilar.
Lots of different colours are far nicer than just different shades of grey
nonsense!
Henry Joy McCracken if he were alive today would probably be Hibernian fan. Hibs fans sometimes fly the green flag which was the flag flown by the men of 1798. Also McCracken being a Presbyterian and Republican would identify with the fact that Hibs draw their support from both Catholics and Protestants.what a couple of ******** posts these are. firstly, Hibs were the only sectarian club in Scotland to begin with - they only played Catholics as a rule. Hibernian was far more solely Irish Catholic than Celtic - only in the last half-century did that changed, simply because the Glasgow clubs became the top two, the rivalry more intense and politicized etc. McCracken, as a "scotch-irish" ulsterman, would certainly find the tricolor and the term "Celtic" instead of just the Latin for Irish, more accomodating to his heritage and politics (seeing as Hibs of late have developed a distinctly non-celtic, non-irish, non-scottish fascist casual element)."tim_1798" - i think this is more interesting in the context of ur connundrum. I hardly think that Henry Joy McCracken would enjoy a Glasgow Celtic game. I dont think he would appreciate the "Irish culture" inherent in a lot of Celtic supporters songs.
and what on earth would McCracken find offensive about Celtic's songs? admittedly, in the past there were a few "John Knox is down in hell" and "oh it's great to be a Roman Catholic", but since the board-initiated Bhoys Against Bigotry campaign, these have been successfully banned. even ones i'm sure he would have approved of, like A Nation Once Again, have been banned
furthermore, there are a huge amount of protestant celts - myself included. i've never even been inside an RC church, the only church i ever attended was protestant, and i know alot of Celtic fans (particularly in US, Aus, and NZ) who are the same. (i'm actually agnostic now though btw). and believe me, we have no trouble being accepted by the 70%-85% Catholic-schooled majority.
i rather think McCracken would have been a follower of a Ulster Belfast club, like Glentoran, or maybe even Cliftonville.
Last edited by aussie_tim_1798; 09/09/2003 at 7:27 AM.
actually, i don't simply watch them on t.v., i've also spend perhaps a thousand dollars on merchandise, i'm a World Huddle member (i.e. season-ticket holder for foreigners), i watch the games with fellow Celtic-supporters (most of whom are from Scotland, some Irish) and sing the songs. the only thing that separates my level of participation from most is that i've never actually had the pleasure of entering Celtic Park.Just because you have irish roots of some sort why do you feel you have to support a club thousands of miles away that you have no connection to? That would be tha same if supporting a scottish or irish club.
I could pick an Italian team to support cos i liked their jerseys or whatever but how will i ever have an connection with that club? I can still watch them on tv & look out for their results but i can never really be called a supporter cos i'm really only a spectator...
but the real point is, that this is a slippery-slope argument. if i decided to support a melbourne team, i'd really have little connection with that club either. since i'm not actually from melbourne (would an Australian club founded by, and mostly staffed by, either Italians or Greeks or Macedonians, have much relevance to me anyway?) but a small town north, which only has a junior amatuer club, who if i played for would probably be their best player - should i support it?
fact is, your connection is wherever your heart lies...
well, i'd love to hear a definition of a "Plastic Paddy". i mean, for example, does Henry Joy McCracken fall under this nomenclature? or Douglas Hyde? or all the thousands who since 1169 have come to Ireland only to eventually call it home? does Ireland not welcome immigrants?What you have to understand is that these Irish boys will think you are a "Plastic Paddy".
the story of my love affair is quite simple: when i was 12, my mother and my grandmother went on holiday to Europe. they returned with, among many other souvenoirs, some history books, and a Phil Coulter CD. they spent most of their time in the British Isles, and loved the British Isles the most, and so i asked where my ancestors were from (expecting the answer to be England of course). my dad's side, basically 100% Irish Catholic (he even spoke some Gaelic in his childhood with relatives), and my mum's side, an admixture of Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, and English. so i started reading the history books on these countries and became quite enthralled (as a 12 year old does with tales of battles and their heroes). above all, the photos of the Irish landscape possessed for me an overwhelming sense of familiarity. but nothing could prepare me for the experience that was listening to my first CD of Celtic (mostly Irish) music (albeit played on a piano with accompaniment). amazing. ever since then, i've always thought of Eire as home, it's always felt like home. is that a crime?
"they say, they will, return again
the london irish, the london irish
but they, won't say, exactly when
the london irish, the london irish"
i thought many Irish wanted their expatriates to return?
thanks for the advice Lionel Hutz, and i know the type you're talking about, but i'm sure i'll have to go to Ireland before i accept any such generalization.The main reason I stay away from league of Ireland grounds Austim is the fans!
Actaully its probably why alot of people stay away from league of ireland grounds.......
Most of them just go as an excuse to get away from the wife and stand there giving out about everything that moves.
You know the type they can be found at any bar in Ireland sitting around solving the problems of the world to their own satisfaction and god forbid anyone should have an opinion that doesnt conform to their thinking.
Just look through some of the threads on these boards to see what I mean.
Leave them to it I say
My advice to ye is to stick with Celtic fc, ye cant go wrong!
Hail Hail
Lionel what I was meaning was that because of the differences between Irish and Scots the Celtic fans that get called "Plastic Paddys" do have alot of differences to say their ancestors.
Personally I can see similarities between Scots and Irish but yes differences are good.
Anyway C'mon the hoops.
You from the League Of Ireland PR team or what?Originally posted by Conor74
You might quote the source of your presumptions.
I actually bring the wife. We meet a lot of (mostly unmarried) fellows and talk about the game. We go for a few drinks before and after and have a good laugh. We may head for a late bar. Nobody gives out about anything unless the team played poorly, because who wants to listen to whingers all night?
So agin, i ask you, what's the source of your fascinating theory?
If that statement is made in reference to where a person originates from or their backround and is said in a fashion to cause offence and indeed violence on occasion then yes it is a racist statement!Originally posted by Conor74
You really are not the brightest crayon in the box. Your logic is that any phrase that causes offence, if repeated, makes the person who makes that statement racist.
Ahhhh but I see yer from Kerry, Id imagen Jackie Healy Ray gets yer first preference...................
Now I see where yer logic comes from!
that's hardly an answer LH...Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
You from the League Of Ireland PR team or what?
or are you from the 'trample on the LOI team' or what?
This is going round in circles at this stage and Iv had enough, its getting boring!
You say Im a plastic paddy and I say your a racist now can we just leave it at that?
Not at all!Originally posted by tiktok
or are you from the 'trample on the LOI team' or what?
I would love to see football flourish in Ireland and try not to critices the standard of football as many people who support teams from across the water do as I think League Of Ireland clubs do great work on the amount of resources they have to operate with I just dont like the League of Ireland fans thats all.
not liking all LOI fans is a bit much though isn't it....
what experience's are you basing this on, have you been to a game where you were treated particularly badly or are you basing it on those you've encountered on this message board???
not having a go, just curious.
I think McCracken being a Freemason as many of the the leaders of the United Irishmen were, might have a problem with the "Masonic Conspiracy theories" of many Celtic fans. Celtic fans are always going on about referees and the SFA making biased decisions as part of some huge "Masonic Conspiracy". Also McCracken would identify with the fact that Hibs were owned by a Freemason Harry Swan from the 1930's onwards.Originally posted by aussie_tim_1798
what a couple of ******** posts these are. firstly, Hibs were the only sectarian club in Scotland to begin with - they only played Catholics as a rule. Hibernian was far more solely Irish Catholic than Celtic - only in the last half-century did that changed, simply because the Glasgow clubs became the top two, the rivalry more intense and politicized etc. McCracken, as a "scotch-irish" ulsterman, would certainly find the tricolor and the term "Celtic" instead of just the Latin for Irish, more accomodating to his heritage and politics (seeing as Hibs of late have developed a distinctly non-celtic, non-irish, non-scottish fascist casual element).
and what on earth would McCracken find offensive about Celtic's songs? admittedly, in the past there were a few "John Knox is down in hell" and "oh it's great to be a Roman Catholic", but since the board-initiated Bhoys Against Bigotry campaign, these have been successfully banned. even ones i'm sure he would have approved of, like A Nation Once Again, have been banned
furthermore, there are a huge amount of protestant celts - myself included. i've never even been inside an RC church, the only church i ever attended was protestant, and i know alot of Celtic fans (particularly in US, Aus, and NZ) who are the same. (i'm actually agnostic now though btw). and believe me, we have no trouble being accepted by the 70%-85% Catholic-schooled majority.
i rather think McCracken would have been a follower of a Ulster Belfast club, like Glentoran, or maybe even Cliftonville.
Also for your information it was way back in 1893 that the Hibees first opened their doors to non-Catholics. The support base was further broadened to include more non-Catholics when Swan became the first non-Catholic director.
Also it wouldn't be too suprising if McCracken would have been a Cliftonville supporter. Up until about 1970 Cliftonville were a mainly middle class and Protestant amateur football club (same background as McCracken). And it was only after demographic changes during the "troubles" that they changed to a mainly Catholic semi-professional club.
I also forgot to mention that original motto of Hibernian was "Erin go Bragh" meaning "Ireland Forever" or "Ireland until Doomsday" which was used on the green flag flown by the men of 1798 and which was flown by many Hibernian supporters in the 2001 Scottish FA Cup Final.
PS McCracken was also educated in Edinburgh so that's another reason he might identify with Hibernian.
Last edited by Paddy Ramone; 10/09/2003 at 10:33 AM.
threads merged again. Any more new threads on this topic will be either deleted or merged.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
No worries mate!Originally posted by tiktok
not liking all LOI fans is a bit much though isn't it....
what experience's are you basing this on, have you been to a game where you were treated particularly badly or are you basing it on those you've encountered on this message board???
not having a go, just curious.
Been to games (but never been treated badly as such) various message boards and indeed just people I know from day to day activities who attend LOI games!
Never meet such a small minded self righteous bunch in all my life!
Have no time for them and they have completely turned me off watching domestic football.....when the hell did we suddenly start calling it "soccer" anyway?
This ****** from them about Celtic=secterian just reafirms what Iv come to believe over the years.
BTW when I was younger I often attended the Carlisle Grounds and Dalymount on the odd occasion
The fact that the first irish people came from scotland, we were all celts, used basically the same language and have always had a close relationship with one another, helped each other in many battles(mostly against england), Our people have more our less the same characteristics, alot of the same customs, Ways for making and building stuff would make us completely different wouldnt it.Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Personally I dont see Irish and Scottish culture and history as being at all similar which is the way it should be!
Lots of different colours are far nicer than just different shades of grey
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
Always thought the cultures of both countries parted to a large extent with the arrival of the reformation and its ideals to Scotland.Originally posted by Cityace
The fact that the first irish people came from scotland, we were all celts, used basically the same language and have always had a close relationship with one another, helped each other in many battles(mostly against england), Our people have more our less the same characteristics, alot of the same customs, Ways for making and building stuff would make us completely different wouldnt it.
Dunno about helping each other in battles either, think ye may have seen Braveheart one to mant times!
Alot of the misery inflicted on Ireland (specialy in the last few hundred years) has been at the hands of Scottish people IMHO.
However thats getting of topic, which I think has been done to death, think Il let it go now unless a new angle appears to the thread
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