Celtic Discussion

[Beavis]

Originally posted by lopez
Who got the Brits into Ireland in the first place? Thatch? Churchill? Lloyd George? King Bill? No! The fúcking Pope.

I'm just a bystander in this and don't wish to get involved but was interested in this remark.Could you enlighten us(me) Lopez?
[norman invasion 1169,Richard de Clare brought to Ireland by Dermot McMurrough to fight O'Connors of Breifne??]

[lopez]

Originally posted by Beavis
I'm just a bystander in this and don't wish to get involved but was interested in this remark.Could you enlighten us(me) Lopez?
[norman invasion 1169,Richard de Clare brought to Ireland by Dermot McMurrough to fight O'Connors of Breifne??]

Adrian IV (nee Nicholas Breakspear) sanctioned an invasion of Ireland by Henry II, in his bull laudabiliter (often known as the donation of Ireland) in 1151 to 'enlarge the boundaries of the church, to restrain the downward course of vice, to correct evil habits and introduce virtue and to increase the Christian religion.' (Lydon: The Making of Modern Ireland pp 51). As I believe it, Ireland had its own form of Celtic- Christianity which permitted divorce, extra-marital relations and a loose definition of illegitimacy (this was important in relevance to inheritance).

Therefore, even before McMurrough's 'invitation', the pope had already given his blessing to an English invasion, one that was not acted upon until 1169. As the supreme 'monarch' in Western Europe, no one would have invaded, and made himself King of Ireland, without the papal nod.

[Beavis]

Very interesting,especially didn't know about our own Celtic Christianity.If only Henry 8th had adopted it,would have saved him a lot of hassle
(BTW Paddy Ramone I think your a bit off about Henry 8th being involved in the initially invasions-he was around about 300 years later!)
Cheers

[Paddy Ramone]

I meant to say Henry II.

[TheRealRovers]

[SIZE=4]Celtic??????[/SIZE]

[gspain]

And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne. There is a mural in Stormont showing him getting blessing from the Pope.

[Paddy Ramone]

The Papacy is also an absolute monarchy. It's the oldest surving monarchy in the world.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne. There is a mural in Stormont showing him getting blessing from the Pope.

Possibly one of the most idiotic events in Irish history from the point of view of Irish nationalists. Let's see: Support an English King because he's Catholic against a Protestant Dutch King (who as it just happens is the English King's son - in - law) that has the support of el papa. Apart from the noise, disruption and the obvious intention of rubbing in noses, I never could understand why people get ****ed off over the laughable annual commemoration of this event.

More recently we should look at the role of the RC church in post partition Ireland, particularly under the Viceroy McQuaid. While it would take ages to list His Grace's many valiant attempts at turning Ireland into a Papist version of Iran, I think Seán O'Faoláin's observation that it was hard to know where the real Irish parliament was - The Dail or Maynooth? - sums things up nicely.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by gspain
And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne.

anyone know why the pope would support a leader of Protestantism

[lopez]

Originally posted by Beavis
anyone know why the pope would support a leader of Protestantism

We're not talking passive support - as in an Italian wanting Holland to beat England in a football match because Van Basten and Gullit play for AC Milan. We're talking about accusations that Innocent XI actually bankrolled King Billy. I think it had something to do with the Dutch maricon countering some of the power of Louis XIV of France (James II was somehow connected) whom el papa was not on the best terms with. Not for the last time did Rome let religion get in the way of realpolitik.

Likewise, the Vatican loved the British Empire, giving it a free ride into deepest, darkest Africa to convert 'heathens', while discrimination continued against its co-religious in Ireland - discrimination as in the number of Catholics in governmental departments like the civil service as well as blocking self determination itself.