Celtic Discussion

**Scotsman** · 21/07/2003, 1:31 PM

The point is being missed here.

If Irish folk want to support Celtic then let them do so.

If Scottish folk want to support and Irish team then let them do so.

If Scottish and Irish folk want to support English then let them do so.

People have the right to support who they choose.

Live and let live.

Thanks

Robert

**gspain** · 21/07/2003, 4:04 PM

Originally posted by Scotsman
The point is being missed here.

If Irish folk want to support Celtic then let them do so.

If Scottish folk want to support and Irish team then let them do so.

If Scottish and Irish folk want to support English then let them do so.

People have the right to support who they choose.

Live and let live.

Thanks

Robert

I personally have no problem with Irish people supporting sides
from other countries although I'd prefer if they supported an Irish side. Personally I've gone to watch football in numerous countries and that includes 2 Scottish premier division games last season. I call myself a supporter of a premiership club although my last home game was 3.5 years ago and I'd always support an Irish side against them in Europe.

Robert the issue most people here have with Celtic is that some Celtic fans hurl sectarian abuse and boo Rangers or ex Rangers players at Irish games.

Hence the dislike and anti Celtic feelings among Irish fans.

I've no doubt that there are equally boneheaded Rangers fans and they come to Lansdowne Road pretend to be Irish fans and abuse ex Celtic players then they'll feel our wrath as well.

**Jam** · 22/07/2003, 1:26 PM

Support who you like. Couldn't care less.

There is a difference in Irish fans supporting Celtic than those that support an English team in that some people think Celtic is Irish or Ireland

.

Celtic is a Scottish club from Glasgow. They play in the SPL, they represent Scotland in Europe. When they get to the final of the UEFA it is the Scottish coefficient that benefits not the Irish one.

Many of their fans may wave Irish flags but there are reasons for this - pre-war in Northern Ireland and the rise of the IRA this wasn't as popular. It is in a huge part the sectarianism of western Scotland and Northern Ireland. The other side of all this is the British/unionist/loyalist mirror of Rangers. Scotland, and I mean Scotland as the nation and the, hopefully to be independent nation state, is virtually invisible in this divide. But both are still Scottish even though in many aspects they are part of Scotland's shame.

I think some of the Irish fans think it is Celtic fans that boo Rangers players at Irish games. I'm in the Tartan Army and I can vouch for that although I wouldn't know if it's Irish people or east end of Glasgow guys that follow Ireland, some of whom aren't any more Irish than me (I'm 3rd generation Irish but consider myself to be Scottish not Irish - why should I when I'm so clearly not?

).

I've said before some in the Tartan Army are hostile to Rangers and Celtic fans because of their lack of Scottish identity even to the extent of taking the pish ootae the ones that follow Scotland - which seems a bit counter-productive as they seem to be the good guys in my opinion.

Similarly, the guys that follow Celtic here at least follow Ireland. So that is surely a good thing?

I suppose if I was Irish I would instinctively lean towards my home team (yer hame team is yer ain team

) rather than Celtic and I do find it a bit peculiar. However, it's a great ground, a fantastic atmosphere, it has historical links to the Irish who came to Scotland and I'd imagine Scotland doesn't seem that foreign to Irish people anyway (Ireland seems similar to Scotland to me in a lot ways) so I can uinderstand why they feel a kind of belonging there.

**Scotsman** · 22/07/2003, 3:19 PM

Excellent post Jam.

I applaud you.

Rangers fans who used to go the Scotland games booed their own players because they played for Celtic.

This I think has died off but I was at the Belguim V Scotland game and a section of Rangers fans gave Joos Valgaren more grief than anyone on the pitch and that was before a ball was even kicked.

Swing and roundabouts.

Scotland and Ireland do have some similarities and unfortunatley bigotry is one of them.

Alot of Celtic fans support Ireland and alot Rangers fans suport England.

Also bear in mind alot of Celtic fans are patriotic Scots like myself and suport Scotland and not Ireland.

I like to see Ireland do well though, but in a Scotland V Ireland game I'd support Scotland.

We can change this by showing these people the benefits but not putting them down.

Thanks

Robert

**gspain** · 22/07/2003, 4:19 PM

Quite a few Scottish Celtic fans in both ends at the Feb friendly at Hampden.

My own view is that many Old Firm fans do not really follow any national side. When Rangers play the like sof Dundee and Killie they ar emet with Saltires and "Flower of Scotland" and the response is normally England shirts, Rule Britanna & union jacks. Interesting article in the latest Four Four Two on this.

I can't recall too many if any Scots travelling to watch Ireland - apart from 20 Celtic fans at the Niall Quinn testimonial (presumably en route back from Tony Adams test the previous night). We have a large travelling group of English based fans and a number from Northyern Ireland in recent years although the English tend to be 2nd or 1st generation Irish rather than further back as in Scotland where the emigration happened 100+ years ago.

Never a problem between the scots and the Irish.

Celtic's support in the Republic is very much a new thing even growing considerably this year with tv coverage of league games and the UEFA Cup run. However it has also attracted the sectarian element of RoI society which typically would not have followed football.

**nlgbbbblth** · 22/07/2003, 9:53 PM

Interesting thread
I never had any time for Celtic or Rangers and the bigotry that goes with it

The explosion in Celtic jersies is really sickening though. What a scummy bunch of p r i c k s.
The whole expectancy Irish : therefore must support the Beggars is complete rubbish

Someone bring a banner to Lansdowne for the Australia match and make it say "THIS IS DUBLIN NOT GLASGOW YOU BIGOTED ARSEHOLES"

expect any Aussie with a Rangers connection ie Moore to be booed.

Saw a great retort at the work canteen before the UEFA.
Mr A: I presume you'll be supporting the Bhoys tonight? It would be great if they won. what with the Irish connection and all
Mr B: I don't support Celtic. I don't support the armed struggle.

**Scotsman** · 23/07/2003, 11:51 AM

This shouldn't be but hey what can we do??

Celtic got absolutely hammered by Man utd last nigt!!

**joe** · 23/07/2003, 1:38 PM

Originally posted by Silvio Dante
I officially nominate this as Bullsh*t post of the year so far....

just in case you don't know, you're allowed nominate yourself for such awards too

**Jam** · 23/07/2003, 2:17 PM

thought I'd post a link to the 4-4-2 article about the changing faces of the tartan army (a guy on the TA website scanned it in)

http://www.t-army.com/cgi-bin/ikonbo...=12&topic=5315

the interest here is how the TA changed from having an OF fan base (particularly Rangers) to a small club fan base which is more nationalist (patriotic and with their vote) and is sometimes anti-OF (seen as anti-Scottish by some - particularly anti-Rangers).

Seems to me that the anti-Celtic thing here has some links in that supporters of Eircom sides see their sides as Irish and Celtic as not (which is fact basically) but more importantly don't like the links being made between Celtic and Ireland (which is a matter of opinion..

Anyway, I hope you enjoy it..

Robert - I follow Scotland home and away at every game and that stuff died out over 20 yrs ago.. At the big games i.e. belgium away you get the odd idiot but I wouldn't say they come from particularly clubs - they're just a*seholes. The hardcore of the TA is outward looking, friendly and wouldn't be seen dead indulging in that kind of behaviour.

Apologies - I know this is an Irish board..