Celtic Discussion

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by Scotsman
So in one hand you're saying that by staing facts about Scotland I took offence but on the other me stating fact about Ireland you have taken offence and that's acceptable as it's childish from me.

Hello!!

Practice what you preach Lionel!!

You talk a good game and that' s all.

Yes but my facts were relevent to the thread where as yours were not!

[Lionel Hutz]

Originally posted by TheRealRovers
Isn't this thread meant to be about Celtic

Was mostly about proclaiming all Celtic fans as bigots............
Just went abit of topic thats all!

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by gspain
Agreed it is ridiculous and disgraceful to expect Irish people to support Hibs or indeed any other British club - they should support Limerick or Shelbourne or Longford or whoever.

I don't see what's wrong with supporting Hibs. Hibernian FC were the first football club to be founded by Irish people ever. I don't expect Irish people to support the Hibees. But if they are to support a foreign club, it might as well be the Hibees.

Hibernian FC were founded by a Catholic priest from Ballingarry Co Limerick, Canon Hannan in 1875. A good reason for Limerick people to support them instead of Celtic.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
A good reason for Limerick people to support them instead of Celtic.

Think at the moment, the best thing Limerick people could do is support Limerick FC before it dies the death...

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Macy
Think at the moment, the best thing Limerick people could do is support Limerick FC before it dies the death...

I don't disagree with you. More people should support their local clubs.

[Paddy Ramone]

Originally posted by Scotsman


What does Hibernian mean? - Excuse my ignorance.

Hibernian means Irish. It is derived from the Roman name for Ireland which was Hibernia.

[Jam]

Well I'm a member of the SNP and I've never heard it's initials standing for Soon no pope (quote: Scotsman) - are you sure you have been listening too much to your north-Br*t labour chums

The SNP face huge hostility in in Glasgow. I know folk that have when campaigning round the doors for the SNP been telt they are orange b*stards or linked to the IRA. Have to say, I find Paddy's unionist reasoning of Celtic and Rangers quite convincing and while he's probably deliberately stretched it, I'm sure there is more than a little grain of truth in it. It's certainly true that the west of Scotland is overwhelmingly north-Brit in its voting patterns - particularly catholics, many of whom are prominent members of the labour party.

Only a decade ago the SNP decided to remain neutral on the Irish national question, when the grassroots would sympathise with the nationalist side - no question. This was probably done tactically, there are more votes to be lost than won out of it and basically cos it's not really our phuqin business.

I'd love to see an independent Scotland and anybody in Scotland sympathetic to the Irish plight needs to open their eyes if they can't see that this independent Scotland would be a huge step on the road to Irish unity. The Ulster-Scots identify with Britishness and a protestant Scotland in particular as part of Britain (an identification that most Scots don't share cos bascially it's crap). If Scotland leaves my guess would be that in 5-10y years Northern Ireland would join the republic leaving Wales and England together.

And arguments about how an independent Scotland would become a hun statelet like Northern Ireland was - well it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't encouraged by the labour party - to stop catholics voting for SNP - let's face it - it's in their interest cos it keeps the jobs for the boys.

[TheRealRovers]

So what has any of this to do with Pro/Anti Celtic?

[lopez]

Originally posted by Jam
Well I'm a member of the SNP and I've never heard it's initials standing for Soon no pope (quote: Scotsman) - are you sure you have been listening too much to your north-Br*t labour chums

I personally couldn't give a fúck if Soon (there's) No Pope, and truth be told so are many more in Ireland. Who got the Brits into Ireland in the first place? Thatch? Churchill? Lloyd George? King Bill? No! The fúcking Pope.

Jam, no offence, I couldn't care less if there is an independent Scotland or not tommorow, simply because of the role of some of your compatriots in the partion of Ireland. Equally from a personal point of view I don't want the seccession of the more moderate parts of Britain turning England into a twent-first century Rwanda. But, hey, good luck all the same. Let's hope it doesn't cost as many lives as Irish independence did (or should that be 'continues to do').

BTW lads, 42 pages?! On Celtic? FFS??!!

[Scotsman]

This is way off - Are we gonna talk football or what?

Religion have nothing to do my family supporting labour - We were miners and the labour party supported miners - Nough said!!

[Beavis]

Originally posted by lopez
Who got the Brits into Ireland in the first place? Thatch? Churchill? Lloyd George? King Bill? No! The fúcking Pope.

I'm just a bystander in this and don't wish to get involved but was interested in this remark.Could you enlighten us(me) Lopez?
[norman invasion 1169,Richard de Clare brought to Ireland by Dermot McMurrough to fight O'Connors of Breifne??]

[lopez]

Originally posted by Beavis
I'm just a bystander in this and don't wish to get involved but was interested in this remark.Could you enlighten us(me) Lopez?
[norman invasion 1169,Richard de Clare brought to Ireland by Dermot McMurrough to fight O'Connors of Breifne??]

Adrian IV (nee Nicholas Breakspear) sanctioned an invasion of Ireland by Henry II, in his bull laudabiliter (often known as the donation of Ireland) in 1151 to 'enlarge the boundaries of the church, to restrain the downward course of vice, to correct evil habits and introduce virtue and to increase the Christian religion.' (Lydon: The Making of Modern Ireland pp 51). As I believe it, Ireland had its own form of Celtic- Christianity which permitted divorce, extra-marital relations and a loose definition of illegitimacy (this was important in relevance to inheritance).

Therefore, even before McMurrough's 'invitation', the pope had already given his blessing to an English invasion, one that was not acted upon until 1169. As the supreme 'monarch' in Western Europe, no one would have invaded, and made himself King of Ireland, without the papal nod.

[Beavis]

Very interesting,especially didn't know about our own Celtic Christianity.If only Henry 8th had adopted it,would have saved him a lot of hassle
(BTW Paddy Ramone I think your a bit off about Henry 8th being involved in the initially invasions-he was around about 300 years later!)
Cheers

[Paddy Ramone]

I meant to say Henry II.

[TheRealRovers]

[SIZE=4]Celtic??????[/SIZE]

[gspain]

And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne. There is a mural in Stormont showing him getting blessing from the Pope.

[Paddy Ramone]

The Papacy is also an absolute monarchy. It's the oldest surving monarchy in the world.

[lopez]

Originally posted by gspain
And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne. There is a mural in Stormont showing him getting blessing from the Pope.

Possibly one of the most idiotic events in Irish history from the point of view of Irish nationalists. Let's see: Support an English King because he's Catholic against a Protestant Dutch King (who as it just happens is the English King's son - in - law) that has the support of el papa. Apart from the noise, disruption and the obvious intention of rubbing in noses, I never could understand why people get ****ed off over the laughable annual commemoration of this event.

More recently we should look at the role of the RC church in post partition Ireland, particularly under the Viceroy McQuaid. While it would take ages to list His Grace's many valiant attempts at turning Ireland into a Papist version of Iran, I think Seán O'Faoláin's observation that it was hard to know where the real Irish parliament was - The Dail or Maynooth? - sums things up nicely.

[Beavis]

Originally posted by gspain
And don't forget the Pope was on King Billy's side too in the battle of the Boyne.

anyone know why the pope would support a leader of Protestantism

[lopez]

Originally posted by Beavis
anyone know why the pope would support a leader of Protestantism

We're not talking passive support - as in an Italian wanting Holland to beat England in a football match because Van Basten and Gullit play for AC Milan. We're talking about accusations that Innocent XI actually bankrolled King Billy. I think it had something to do with the Dutch maricon countering some of the power of Louis XIV of France (James II was somehow connected) whom el papa was not on the best terms with. Not for the last time did Rome let religion get in the way of realpolitik.

Likewise, the Vatican loved the British Empire, giving it a free ride into deepest, darkest Africa to convert 'heathens', while discrimination continued against its co-religious in Ireland - discrimination as in the number of Catholics in governmental departments like the civil service as well as blocking self determination itself.