Back in the 1930's the first Protestant to have shares in Hibernian, Harry Swan did consider changing the name to Edinburgh Thistle or something like that I think. Hibs would have lost a large section of their support if this had happened so I suppose he changed his mind. Swan also stopped Catholic priests getting free into matches in an effort to attract more support from non-Catholics.Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Of these facts Im sure your right!
But are you saying that my previous post about Hibs clear attempts to disassociate itself from its Irish roots are not true?
But also duing the Harry Swan era, Donegalman Mickey Gallagher the first native Irish speaker to play for Ireland, played at right-half in the same side as the famous five.
The simple fact is that Hibernian were the first football club to be founded by Irish people ever and Celtic are just a spin-off founded by Hibs supporter Brother Walfrid, just like Dundee United (originally Dundee Hibs ) were founded by another Hibs supporting Irishman Pat Reilly.
Last edited by Paddy Ramone; 04/09/2003 at 2:26 PM.
Swan did indeed try to make Hibs "less Irish" . He removed the harp that stood at the main gate and wanted to change the name. The harp has recently been incorporated in the new ( couple of years old now ) Hibs badge. This was designed with input from the supporters.
I could easily say - I'm Irish as my mum's maiden name is Rooney.
Why would I want to do that??
I'm not Irish - I was born in Scotland, Talk with a Scottish accent.
People who claim to be Irish and kidden themselves.
Americans/Canadians and even English do the same with Scotland.
The only reason the majority do that is for secterian purposes - IE Catholism.
Certainly they could have a soft spot for Ireland but not claim to be "Irish".
No they are not they are Irish cos their great-grandad moved to Glasgow 100 years ago and they've been to Donegal once. Just ask Silvio.
I've had enough of this cr@p.
Some of Silvo's posts were as if they were more proud to be Irish.
Each to their own - We have enough people who are proud to be Scottish.
Personally I think they are fools to pretend to be Irish or otherwise.
If you strip away the whole secterian aspect and Celtic/Rangers existance there would not be people who thought they were Irish becuase they have an Irish surname from way.....back and support Celtic.
Some people do this to feel closer to Celtic.
Same with Rangers supporting England.
No Scotsman in their right mind would support the English.
The Tartan Army hate Rangers wearing England tops.
This whole thing is a plague and must be ridden of from Scotland and society as a whole.
I have no qualms with anyone who is genuine about their own ancestry - I hate people who latch onto it for football/secterian and bigoted reasons.
To Jam - Are you of Scots descent?
I'm from Dunfermline as is maist of ma family. I'm not of 'Scots descent' - I'm Scottish masel - nae descent aboot it fella!
Mibbe A'm Irish though cos ma Grandad was fae Ireland and I've been tae Donegal one time aboot ten year ago and I was in Derry last year fur a stag do! ....and A ken the wurds tae the Fields of Athenry......
i agree with the 'each to their own thing' that silvio is getting at to a degree, i'm in the states now and if i had a kid over here i would definitely want him/her growing up considering themselves irish.
the problem arises when the traditions and culture that the ex-pats cling to no longer bears a resemblance to the land they left. the green mist, comely maidens dancing at the crossroads and rose tinted view of the 'troubles' and our 'struggle' create a chasm between irish residents and those abroad that consider themselves irish. this is where the whole plastic paddy thing is generated from.
this is more prevalent in the US than in scotland because the two nations (ireland and scotland) do share a lot of similarities, both positive and negative. but at the same time, holding a tricolour at celtic park while singing rebel songs doesn't make you irish, it simply makes you a celtic fan.
It wa shis Grnadad so maybe it didn't translude to the parents.
Anyway being Scottish is something also to be proud of as much as Irish.
If had a choice to come back as any race I would choose Scots/Irish and then Brazillian for the footie and the burds.
How's that?
Here's a wee joke :
You'll be sick o' the Irish jokes so here's one on my Countrymen.
A recent Scottish immigrant to the U.S. attended his first baseball game. After a base hit, he heard the fans roaring, "Run...run!"
The next batter connected heavily with the ball and the Scotsman stood up and roared with the crowd in his thick accent, "R-r-r-un yah bahstard. R-r-run!"
A third batter slammed a hit and again the Scotsman, obviously pleased with his knowledge of the game, screamed, "R-r-r-un ya bahstard, r-r-run will ya."
The next batter's count went to three and two. As the next pitch went outside the plate, he held his swing. The umpire called a walk and the Scotsman stood up yelling, "R-r-r-un ya bahstard, r-r-run!"
All the surrounding fans giggled quietly and he sat down, confused. A friendly fan, sensing his embarrassment, whispered, "He didn't run as he's got four balls."
After this explanation the Scotsman stood up in disbelief and screamed, "No wonner yer running!"
OR
A woman golfer suffers a nasty bee sting and leaves the course to go see her doctor about it.
"What happened?" asked the doctor.
"I got stung between the first and second hole," replied the lady golfer.
The doctor replied, "You must have an awfully wide stance!"
Or
Little Johnny was in his nursery class when the teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living.
All the typical answers came up- fireman, policeman,salesman... etc... Johnny was being uncharacteristically quiet and so the teacher asked him about his father.
"My fathers an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off his clothes in front of other men. Sometimes ,if the offer is really good, he'll go out to the alley with some screamin fag and take it up the ass."
The teacher ,obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some coloring, and took little Johnny aside to ask him,"Is that really true about your father?"
"No," said Johnny, "he plays for the Rangers, but I was too embarassed to say".
Sorry that should be "No wonner yer not running!"
That is what it should read - Sorry
What about this one:
Taking a wee break from the golf circuit, Tiger Woods drives his new Buick Rendezvous into an Irish gas station. An attendant greets him in typical Irish manner, unaware who the golf pro is, "Top o' the morning to ya". As Tiger gets out of the car, two tees fall out of his pocket. "So what are those thing my, son?" asks the attendant.
"They're called tees," replied Tiger.
"And what would ya be usin 'em for, now?" inquired the Irishman.
"Well, they're for resting my balls on when I drive," replies Tiger.
"Aw, Jaysus, Mary an' Joseph!" exclaimed the Irish attendant. "Those fellas working for Buick think of everything!"
my Celtic-Irish conundrum...
ok, so i'm a Glasgow Celtic supporter from Australia...
before all you anti-Glasgow Celtic fellas on here judge me, try and put yourselves in my shoes for a sec: i wasn't brought up supporting any soccer club (soccer being a game for "wogs and poofters"), so when i started taking an interest in the beautiful game, i was able to make a very concious and deliberate choice as to which club i would support. an EPL round-up is on TV every monday night here on SBS, and i came very close to supporting either Leeds Utd or Liverpool. the former because i liked the squad (Kewell, McPhail, Harte) and the kits (all-white, and yellow) and the latter because... well, because they're Liverpool. but i'd always had Celtic in the back of my mind, because i was and still am very interested in Irish history and culture. if a foreign-born Ireland-loving celtophile is going to support a football club, which one do you think it'd be? considering that in Australia at least, i would never be able to see a single eL match. so when i read more of the Celtic's history, and saw my first Celtic match on TV, i fell in love with the club. the songs, the atmosphere, is unbelievable. (especially in comparison to the AFL!). and i sympathize(d) with many of the East End Glaswegians who romantically see themselves as displaced/exiled Irish.
but i agree with the central thrust of the anti-Celtic argument, namely, that it's hypocritical to fly the tricolor and sing songs about Ireland, when all the money you put into the club is going to Scotland. (i think it's very easy to take Football too seriously, and to get all moralistic about what is, after all, entertainment..i mean, using the same logic that some anti-Celtic people are using here, i could attack them for not supporting Ireland sufficiently, because they're not supporting the youth teams. obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere...i'd say, at supporting Man U
solution: the proposed Atlantic League. profressional football has become highly money-oriented, and i don't see this changing in the foreseeable future. big clubs in smaller leagues, are finding it harder and harder to compete with the big clubs in the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A. most of the following clubs have expressed their consideration or approval (in the case of Celtic since 2000) of the proposed league with would rival the large aforementioned ones...
Club Brugges [Belgium]
PSV Eindhoven [Holland]
Ajax [Holland]
Benfica [Portugal]
Sporting Lisbon [Portugal]
RSC Anderlecht [Belgium]
Glasgow Rangers [Scotland]
Glasgow Celtic [Scotland]
Feyenoord [Holland]
AIK Stockholm [Sweden]
Gothenburg [Sweden]
Brondby [Denmark]
FC Copenhagen [Denmark]
Standard Liege [Belgium]
with Celtic and Rangers participation in the SPL scrapped, so too would the possibility of winning the domestic treble, thus, it would be no great crime if Celtic pulled out of the League Cup, and instead competed in the FAI Cup. Celtic would become the first border-transcendent football club, playing home games alternately in Glasgow and Dublin. Celtic FC could merge with Shamrock Rovers, building a new stadium and garnishing an immediate fanbase. by the time all this occurs, the inevitable United Ireland will hopefully have been achieved, and the Belfast Catholic community would immediately rally around an official re-identification with the Grand Auld Team, Belfast Celtic (maybe even a further merger with Cliftonville?).
this scenario would thus eliminate the hypocrisy inherent in the present situtation. and since Celtic will be playing in the Atlantic League, we also wouldn't be faced with the peculiar situation of the club competing against other Irish clubs on a week-in, week-out basis.
this is all very far-fetched i know, but i think it's obvious that the future of football in these capitalist supra-national times is border-transcendent, and it is only a matter of time before a permanent European leaugue replaces all national leagues (with domestic Cups staying in place). we may not like it, but it is inevitable, if money is going to continue ruling and running the beautiful game.
on a quite different note....i want to follow an eL club... but which? obviously i have an immediate leaning to the Shamrock Rovers because of their strong Celtic FC connection, and they're roving/wandering history also appeals to me...then most of my Irish ancestors were from Cork, but i don't know if any of them were actually from Cork City. and has said club dropped the "Rebels" nickname? other ancestors were from Clare, but then there's no Clare club... but how can i really decide without even being able to see a match? i hope to go on student exchange to UCD, so maybe i'll have to wait till then, and experience the atmosphere of each club, before i can make any truly informed decision...
anyways, i apologize for the long-windedness of this post...
No offence but this is complete poo.
If your so interested in Irish culture support an irish team.
But the fact is that you said you fell in-love with the atmosphere, yadda,yadda,yadda,etc. so therefore your influences have p!ss all to do with Irish culture.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
i'm confused by your reply... are you denying that Irish culture has had a great effect on the culture of Glasgow Celtic?
and i said i wanted to support an eL team... is it not possible to support two teams?
moreover, if i take your point to its logical end, if i was interested in Irish culture, i shouldn't follow a soccer club at all, but only Gaelic Football and Hurling, right?
Well no since you said you wanted to support a soccer team.The only influences that We have on celtic now are the idiots who give them their money instead of our own teams.If you wanna follow an irish team then just do it instead of just talking about it.Its not that hard.And i suppose you can follow two teams but its not socially accepted hereabouts.
Why dont you follow an aussie team?
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
well, it is hard, because i can't see a single game!
but let's say, next year, when i'm at UCD and i do get to see games, and i decide on a club, if, for every dollar i spend on Celtic FC, i equaled with a dollar spent on an Irish-based club - will that go anyway towards redeeming me in your eyes?
as regards to why i don't follow an Australian team... have you ever read anything about Australia? not exactly a history that begets a whole lot of pride, if you know what i mean... 'tis true, that it probably is "the most Irish country outside of Ireland" culturally, but a lot of things have to change sociopolitically before i'll even consider lending my support to anything that represents Australia.
and it's not true that the only thing Irish lend to Celtic FC now is money... they still sing Irish songs, there's still more young talent signed from Ireland than anywhere else outside Scotland...
Last edited by aussie_tim_1798; 08/09/2003 at 8:11 AM.
Thread split. If it goes off-topic again, it'll be locked. For what it's worth, I can't understand why this argument goes around and around and around. Celtic is a Scottish club, what's so hard to understand about that?
adam
Just because you have irish roots of some sort why do you feel you have to support a club thousands of miles away that you have no connection to? That would be tha same if supporting a scottish or irish club.Originally posted by aussie_tim_1798
...if a foreign-born Ireland-loving celtophile is going to support a football club, which one do you think it'd be?
I could pick an Italian team to support cos i liked their jerseys or whatever but how will i ever have an connection with that club? I can still watch them on tv & look out for their results but i can never really be called a supporter cos i'm really only a spectator...
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moreover, if i take your point to its logical end, if i was interested in Irish culture, i shouldn't follow a soccer club at all, but only Gaelic Football and Hurling, right?
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Can i just get rid of a misconception.
The only "Irish" sports in the world are hurling and croquets (no i am not making this up). Gaelic Football is just that - an Irish spin-off of rugby/association football.
"tim_1798" - i think this is more interesting in the context of ur connundrum.
I hardly think that Henry Joy McCracken would enjoy a Glasgow Celtic game. I dont think he would appreciate the "Irish culture" inherent in a lot of Celtic supporters songs.
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