I think you're one of the few who engages in self-congratulations, even when you haven't been proved right in the slightest. Why would we analyse injuries to non-Irish players?Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I presume you mean against Scotland? Do you have proof for the bit in bold?
Last edited by DeLorean; 01/12/2014 at 2:29 PM.
My point is people shouldn't read so much into McCarthy picking up an injury after playing twice in four days for his club when virtually three-quarters of their first team have had injury layoffs this season.
Proof as in Everton putting him and Coleman under pressure not to play Intl. matches?
So you're suggesting that McCarthy was perfectly fit to play for Ireland had he wanted to, but having been fit to play for Everton he picked up an entirely new soft tissue injury in the exact same place as before?
Self-congratulation and validation? Rather than letting it slip under the carpet, I simply wanted you to admit you might have been unreasonable for once, but even now you're still clutching at straws. It's desperate.
And, indeed, why would we waste time going through the injuries of non-Irish players? What's their relevance?
Where's your evidence for this?McCarthy, under some pressure from his, club elected not to.
It's not. It's the same hamstring. It don't think he took a knock either. It's an ongoing soft-tissue problem. My understanding is that he pulled up on thirty minutes or so and had to come off. Maybe someone who saw it can confirm this?Their injury problems are so bad this season that McCarthy's knock against Wolfsburg may be unrelated to the one accrued before the Scotland game.
Everton haven't complained about their players representing their country. Have you got quotes? Why do you just make stuff like this up? It's beyond ridiculous now.It would certainly explain why they felt the urge to start him twice in the space of <5 days. Indeed their injury problems are such this season that perhaps they should look inward and worry about their own medical teams expertise rather than complaining about players representing their country!
O'Neill doesn't hold the same views on this as you do.If I'm paranoid, what is Martin O'Neill then?
Who said we should have taken Everton's word and reserved diplomacy? I don't think anyone said that. You're just erecting straw-men again. If we didn't enforce our right to call players over for assessment when we were sceptical, we've no-one to blame but ourselves. That's always been my position.People said we should take Everton's word for it & reserve diplomacy when Coleman & McCarthy missed the Germany game. Then they blamed our guys incompetence for not being more assertive about analysing their fitness. Then they say McCarthy knows his own body such and such this and that after our guys get to analyse him and judge him to be ready for the Scotland game.
And haven't events since proved that James was possibly justified in his concern for his own body? A doctor can assess his leg but he can't actually feel what James himself feels.
He wasn't fit enough to train. Where are you getting this stuff about Everton sticking their beaks in? Provide evidence of this.Yes, McCarthy didn't train enough to realistically put himself into contention but that's the rub. When he should have been given the same training regiment as everybody else you had all this pussyfooting about because of Everton sticking their beaks in.
What past behaviours exactly would warrant you holding prejudice against him or a feeling that he has it in for us or would rather McCarthy not playing for us?Who knows? Maybe I am judging Martinez too harshly because of some of his past behaviors! I said that in the very first comment related to this entire subject. It would have saved everybody a lot of hassle if they took that into consideration at the start!
Now, for heaven's sake, please stop trying to squirm your way out of this and just admit you were wrong because you'd jumped to rash conclusions without being fully informed.
You are similarly lacking in contrition whenever you are proven wrong. And yes it is self-congratulation and validation. You are constantly making non-sequitur, passive aggressive comments and then accuse me of "playing the victim" whenever I reply and/or get upset about it. You have a constant need to be proven right. Let it (our difference of opinion) go.
Plenty of evidence. I think our managerial team know better than you and I. And FAI doctors.
Why was he playing two club matches in the space of four days if the injury was so serious? That's all I want to know. When players are not rotated at clubs competing at several fronts, this is what happens. 3/4 of their first team have picked up similar injuries this season. Maybe they should be more introspective avout it. He still has a duty to play Intl. football.
Like when it was agreed that Coleman wouldn't play the USA game? For one example..
He doesn't hold the same views as you either!!!
That is what people said. Their opinions changed of course when the FAI and the mgmt. team did start asserting themselves.
Managers said that he couldn't ultimately play the game because he wasn't training. It was implied that he could have trained & would have been in a suitable condition to play the game.
Martinez past behaviors when McCarthy was still waiting for his first competitive Intl. cap.
Now please respect my opinion. I may be wrong, as I stated in the very first comment related to this entire thing. So may you. I don't need to say I'm wrong just to satisfy your ego. Get over yourself please.
It's not my problem that accepting you are right in your own mind isn't sufficient for you. It's really not my problem that you need to be validated too.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 02/12/2014 at 9:03 AM.
It was two games in six days actually, a significant difference I would think. And stop playing stupid, they obviously thought the injury had healed significantly that it wouldn't be a factor. The West Ham game was thirteen days after the initial strain, our game was just five days. Are you seriously saying that you don't think an injury has a much better chance of clearing up when the recovery time is practically trebled? MON, himself, said the Scotland game came just too early but that he'd be fine for the weekend. He got through the Saturday untroubled, therefore furthering their belief that he was out of danger. Clearly he wasn't.
Martinez thinks the game against Hull tomorrow will come too early for McCarthy. I bet he would have played had it been an Evert... erm... a club... erm, nevermind.
evertonfc.com
Hopefully the magic formula will be found though in saying it's down to the amount of games he's played shouldn't leave the medical team with a huge job to find the magic formula.
Lets talk about six baby
He's been playing senior football since he was 16, burn out could become a factor in his future fitness
When Martinez came out with this recently I first thought about that fact Tets.
We could do with him out for a month or two tbh.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
You could well be right. Maybe he has told Roberto he is tired or maybe he should? This inury maybe is down to such tiredness.
Lets talk about six baby
I'm the one playing stupid? Lol.
Well, I said I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
That's another postful of deflection and irrelevant whataboutery, TOWK, honest to God, like. I dunno how you do it. I wouldn't be able to twist things so masterfully even if I tried.
"Let it go", as in, "please stop scrutinising what I say"? I don't need to be constantly proved right. The reason being is that I don't feel the need or try to be careful not to make rash and poorly-informed judgments and statements about things in the first place without being fully aware of all the relevant facts. I'm an agnostic by nature. I form an understanding of a situation once I feel there is evidence there to justify or compel such a belief. Being proven right or wrong doesn't really come into it from that basis. It's not something that fundamentally concerns me in the discussion and exchange of ideas. Obviously, if someone is intentionally peddling baloney, I'll pull them up on it because it only serves to obfuscate matters (and maybe there is an element of trivial or even masochistic amusement to my exchanges with you too), but I generally seek greater knowledge and understanding of the truth of situations; I don't go in search for the elusive correctness of a pre-held uninformed opinion or prediction. The difference with you is that you jump to an hysterical conclusion from the outset only to set yourself up for a calamitous fall. Cue the denial and, even then, we'll still have Paul bizarrely telling the rest of us bozos that you're right about everything and that the rest of us are all wrong even though we may have been reticent. It's all a bit hard to stomach when it's based on very shaky foundations. If you want to vainly set such lofty standards for yourself but aren't going to hold yourself to them, don't be surprised if others pull you up on it. Can you actually provide an example of where I've been unable to accept having been proven wrong? And where are these non sequiturs you're referring to?
Indeed, but what you seem to think they believe or know isn't necessarily what they actually believe or know. You seem to be under the impression they're all suspicious of Martinez and that McCarthy would have been OK if it hadn't been for Martinez brainwashing him. It's bunkum.I think our managerial team know better than you and I. And FAI doctors.
DeLorean sufficiently deals with this above and all you can offer him in return is a smart-alec response? I suppose it's better than a typical non-response... And if you're not playing stupid, there can be only one other explanation, I'm afraid.Why was he playing two club matches in the space of four days if the injury was so serious? That's all I want to know. When players are not rotated at clubs competing at several fronts, this is what happens. 3/4 of their first team have picked up similar injuries this season. Maybe they should be more introspective avout it. He still has a duty to play Intl. football.
He doesn't have a strict duty to play international football - it's voluntary - but he does play it when he can because he wants to play for Ireland.
Sorry, what was this an example of exactly? I'd appreciate if you went into greater detail with quotes from the parties involved if possible. You think Coleman was rested because Everton were complaining and unduly sticking their beaks in? And you think Everton are to blame if the FAI do indeed bow down and allow them to call the shots with regard to our player selections? Either way, I don't see how this is evidence of an Everton or Martinez policy. All of McCarthy's 24 senior caps have come whilst playing under Martinez at club level, as have many of Coleman's. Both players have played in friendlies before without Everton feeling any need to "stick their beaks in".Like when it was agreed that Coleman wouldn't play the USA game? For one example..
I never said he did. You were the one comparing your position with O'Neill's by asking if we thought O'Neill was paranoid too. My views are irrelevant to that discussion. You've obviously got a capacity for analysis, but it'd do you good to read a book on logical fallacies. Genuinely.He doesn't hold the same views as you either!!!
Which people? People here? I certainly didn't say it. My opinion on that has always been consistent.That is what people said. Their opinions changed of course when the FAI and the mgmt. team did start asserting themselves.
No, that's what you inferred. Martin explicitly stated that had James had another two or three days, he might have played. That would indicate Martin agreed he probably wasn't ready. Anyway, what was the reason he wasn't able to train for the week? His (recurring) injury, wasn't it? Why are you still squirming like a snake on this?Managers said that he couldn't ultimately play the game because he wasn't training. It was implied that he could have trained & would have been in a suitable condition to play the game.
Past behaviours like what? I want details. Not vague gibberish. What did big bad Roberto do to our wee James whilst he was waiting for his first senior cap?Martinez past behaviors when McCarthy was still waiting for his first competitive Intl. cap.
I'm respecting your opinion by holding it to scrutiny. You don't want everyone to tell you you're right all the time, like Paul, do you? Do you not notice that so few of the regular posters genuinely engage in any depth with you? Did it never strike you why that might be? Do you think it's because they agree with everything you say? I've said it before (and I keep letting myself get sucked in like a fool), but I genuinely think I'll stop bothering from now on too. You're clearly not interested in a reasoned discussion.Now please respect my opinion. I may be wrong, as I stated in the very first comment related to this entire thing. So may you. I don't need to say I'm wrong just to satisfy your ego. Get over yourself please.
How do you reconcile asserting so presumptuously that McCarthy was fit to play with this supposed admission you might also be wrong? At best, you're inconsistent; at worst, downright disingenuous.
Didn't the fact he pulled up against Wolfsburg suggest that your scepticism and flirtations with cosnpiracy theories were unwarranted? When it's demonstrated that you've been unreasonable, the decent thing is to hold your hand up and accept it; not behave like you're doing now.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 03/12/2014 at 8:12 AM.
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/james-...12181-Dec2014/
"Martinez defiant that James McCarthy will remain at Everton despite widespread interest".
Back in the team today but gave away the penalty that put Stoke in front.
Coleman - 2
McGeady - 1 (Opening day)
Long - 2 (In same match)
Walters - 3
Clark - 1
18 games in and 9 goals scored by Irish players. Safe to say it's on course to be the worst ever PL season from an Irish goalscoring standpoint?
Not helped by Long playing out of position and Walters being taken off penalty taking duties. But you would think Brady's returning to fitness, Quinn getting more game time and McGeady, being a decent scorer in Russia, would have balanced this somewhat.
Hopefully my attempt at reverse psychology works but it's just hard to see where and when the goals are going to come from.
Speaking of McGeady & Gibson, I am amazed at the lack of game time they are getting. I am aware that Gibson is injured at the moment.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 26/12/2014 at 4:07 PM.
Tets will be able to do a comparison for you but since Keane left there hasn't been a great season for goals, I don't think.
Not his best piece of defending!
Drops him down the stats a bit.
To be fair, there was next to no contact. Bojan stood on his foot and went straight down. There were three or four penalty shouts on Match of the Day the pundits said weren't enough contact to be a penalty and there was no more here.
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