Shannon Airport Discussion

**pete** · 14/08/2007, 12:25 PM

Moderator Warning - No more Off Topic rubbish on north v south.

Aer Lingus are paying standard wages to their future Belfast hub staff. Just because this is lower than those at Shannon does not make it a 'race to the bottom'.

Its hilarious to read Willie O'Dea oppose the Aer Lingus decision. He is a cabinet Minister who presumably supported the sale of the company. Of course like any good FF-er he does not feel strongly enough to resign from government. To accompany this the government is still the largest Aer Lingus shareholder.

**Newryrep** · 14/08/2007, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I believe the point is that Frankfurt Hahn, Paris Beauvais, London Stansted etc are only useful at all for point to point flying. Scarcely for transfering.

I disagree to a certain extent, and anyway who flies from shannon to Frankfurt and which Frankfurt is it ?

Frankfurt Hahn is probably only usefull point to point

Paris Beauvais - no idea

London Stansted - handy for Ryanair connections but could be viewed as a European hub, same as Luton.

If the issue with Heathrow is because its in the UK then services to the the 4 other 'London' airports Gatwick,Stansted, City and Luton should minimise it.

If the issue with Heathrow is because it is a world hub then a service to Paris CDG or Frankfurt Int should minimise it.

**OneRedArmy** · 14/08/2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by onceahoop

I thought the Government split the airports into 3 seperate entities Shannon airport authority, Cork Airport Authority and Dublin Airport Authority. At least that was the intention under the State Airport Acts 2004 which transferred much of the the dayy to day running of the airports to the the local management

It did.

But Cork don't want to be saddled with the debt of the new terminal there and Shannon isn't viable as a standalone entity so they are now under the control of the DAA with no firm date for separation.

**Newryrep** · 14/08/2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by gael353

Next up you compare Londonderry airport in the UK to Shannon but the issue there isn�t a fare one, as Shannon was in no way capable of offering what Londonderry offered (to Ryanair) but it can now as it is no longer run by the Government.

Could Aer Lingus not switch from Shannon/London Heathrow to Shannon/Londonderry and keep everybody happy

reder · 14/08/2007, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

It did.

But Cork don't want to be saddled with the debt of the new terminal there and Shannon isn't viable as a standalone entity so they are now under the control of the DAA with no firm date for separation.

If Shannon is not a viable standalone entity, whats the point in having the damn thing? Cant believe Cork want a brand new terminal built at no cost to themselves. Was is promised by the government?

**pete** · 14/08/2007, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by reder

I Cant believe Cork want a brand new terminal built at no cost to themselves. Was is promised by the government?

I believe the government promised that Cork Airport would do its own way Independently of any debt for the new Terminal so effectively Yes a free new Terminal.

Cork Airport redevelopment even included an upgraded approach road to dual carraigeway when there would never be enough traffic to justify. The Terminal has a capacity of 3m but current usage is about 1.6m & growth at 4.5%.

I approved of the privatisation of AL. However the airports should be kept in state control (they are a bit like the infrastructure of flight) but run separately so that discounts can be offered to all airlines to encourage competition.

**dahamsta** · 14/08/2007, 1:37 PM

Yet they still haven't figured out skyways up there.

**pete** · 14/08/2007, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Yet they still haven't figured out skyways up there.

Cork Airport i presume?

Airports charge rent for the skyways (air-bridges) per 15 minute period which I believe is why they are not used.

**OneRedArmy** · 14/08/2007, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Cork Airport i presume?

Airports charge rent for the skyways (air-bridges) per 15 minute period which I believe is why they are not used.

O'Leary also reckons he saves 10mins on each turnaround by not needing to attach the airbridge and by people boarding through stairs at the back door.

Another reason I don't like Ryanair.....

**pete** · 14/08/2007, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

O'Leary also reckons he saves 10mins on each turnaround by not needing to attach the airbridge and by people boarding through stairs at the back door.

Another reason I don't like Ryanair.....

The Dublin Airport Charges are constructed in such a way as to encourage airlines to remain on the ground for as short as possible time.

**Dodge** · 14/08/2007, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Moderator Warning - No more Off Topic rubbish on north v south.

Aer Lingus are paying standard wages to their future Belfast hub staff. Just because this is lower than those at Shannon does not make it a 'race to the bottom'.

No way should this be a MOD warning. Standard wages me hole, the main reason for going is to cut costs, and give pilots less rights.

Shocking use of Mod privileges Pete

**gael353** · 14/08/2007, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

No way should this be a MOD warning. Standard wages me hole, the main reason for going is to cut costs, and give pilots less rights.

Shocking use of Mod privileges Pete

only have a second on the net tonight and im with you on this one dodge. Pete your entitled to your opinion and you freely give it but you cant restrict others from voicing theirs.

**pete** · 15/08/2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

No way should this be a MOD warning. Standard wages me hole, the main reason for going is to cut costs, and give pilots less rights.

Shocking use of Mod privileges Pete

Just to be clear I meant no more talk on the north v south politics above, migration trends & other off topic rubbish.

My comment on the wages was a separate issue.

**dahamsta** · 15/08/2007, 11:29 AM

Seemed pretty clear to me, given that it specifically mentioned that.

**OneRedArmy** · 15/08/2007, 12:37 PM

The North v South wage difference is extremely relevant. Wages are lower in Norn Ireland as it is a lower cost economy, so purchasing power parity is lower.

However, the pilots presumably see employing new pilots in Belfast on less money as very much the thin end of the wedge and a first step to employing a lot more non-RoI pilots and are protecting their own, as they always have done. No real surprises.

From memory the pilots are also significant shareholders (separate to any general employee shareholding) so the whole thing could get very messy/interesting.

As Macy and others have pointed out above, something like this was always going to happen after the privatisation.

Another example of FF having absolutely zero foresight.

**Macy** · 15/08/2007, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

However, the pilots presumably see employing new pilots in Belfast on less money as very much the thin end of the wedge and a first step to employing a lot more non-RoI pilots and are protecting their own, as they always have done. No real surprises.

And totally fair enough, given what's happened in the last transport infrastructure sell off by an FF/PD Government, B&I.

**onceahoop** · 15/08/2007, 12:50 PM

Saw the SIPTU rep on news last night saying they wouldn't allow workers in Belfast to do the jobs for less than workers in Shannon were getting. Can't see that sticking. The pilots rep made a peculiar statement. He said Belfast based pilots would have to resign their present positions and rejoin under new conditions. I know a few lads from the north flying for Aer Lingus and there's no way they'll buy that. This whole union thing is symtomatic of the bad feeling that is running through the whole Aer Lingus work force and their complete mistrust of management. Kieran Mulvey of the Labout relations commission said on Morning Ireland that both sides had backed themselves into a corner. Personally I think Mannion is a bit of a Union buster. Interesting times ahead.

**OneRedArmy** · 15/08/2007, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

And totally fair enough, given what's happened in the last transport infrastructure sell off by an FF/PD Government, B&I.

Dunno Macy, I can't say I've a huge amount of sympathy for a group of people earning six figure packages complaining about other people earning slightly smaller six figure packages.

**Dotsy** · 15/08/2007, 1:22 PM

According to an article in the Irish Times today the starting pay for Captains and First Officers in Belfast will be slightly higher than it is for Dublin based pilots. They haven't decided on the higher scale rate yet.

It seems to me the main difference will be that Belfast based pilots will not be part of a Defined Benefit pension scheme but rather a Defined Contribution scheme. I can't see the problem with this. This is the standard throughout private industry nowadays. Very few companies outside the state sector operate defined benefit schemes anymore.

**Macy** · 15/08/2007, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Dunno Macy, I can't say I've a huge amount of sympathy for a group of people earning six figure packages complaining about other people earning slightly smaller six figure packages.

But that's just falling for Mannion's tatics. 6 figure salary pilots today, bottom of the scale baggage handlers/ check in staff tomorrow, where the figures won't be as easy to justify in the press. But if the Unions concede for pilots, it'll set the precedent.

Dotsy, If it really was a better package then Aer Lingus would've had no problem saying so yesterday. Every interview where they were asked did the pay match, they avoided answering by saying it'd be competitive in the local market.

onceahoop, Aer Lingus management cannot be trusted - look how many agreements they've attempted to run roughshod since privatisation. Even the latest pilots dispute is because of Mannion going back on his own agreements.