Its the ratings given to the current IL clubs for this new invitational premier league of 12 rather than the current 16 teams! The Analysis was done by the IFA I think! and they considered things like attendances, past performance, stadium and finances! To me they kind of seem similar to the UEFA coefficient although I am probably wrong on that one!Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
We would be able to compete in 2 tournements at a higher level(setanta and Europe)
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
Why have those results been announced a year in advance? What's the incentive for Donegal Celtic this season for example if they know they're as good as out of the new set up for at least a few years?
The incentive for them is they have a year to install better facilities and better infrustructure.
At least this way every club knows what they have to do to make the cut and they have a year or so to make the improvements.
Incidently Donegal Celtic don't need too many more points to make the cut. From DC up to Loughgall all have a chance of making the 11th and 12th place.
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
Two teams do not a league maketh. Especially when most of the rest of the teams in the Irish League are playing in fornt of the proverbial one man and his dog.
The Eircom League has consistently higher average attendances than the IL, and a much more even distribution of support across both its divisions. Our First Division has higher average crowds than practically all the the IL's premier division combined, and even First Division teams like Dundalk and Shels have average crowds that would pretty much out-do anyone in the IL bar Linfield and probably Glentoran. So the figures amy not bowl you over - but there certainly a lot stronger.
Also - if you want to cherry pick the IL's plum fixture for crowd comparison purposes, then you'd need to do likewise for the EL. Rovers v Bohs is rarely the best supported fixture in any year in the EL. For the last two seasons, for example, it was Derry v Cork, followed by a mix of games involving Cork, Shels, Derry and Drogheda. Rovers and Bohs are only really upper mid-table when it comes to crowds.
Two teams do not a league maketh. Especially when most of the rest of the teams in the Irish League are playing in fornt of the proverbial one man and his dog.
The Eircom League has consistently higher average attendances than the IL, and a much more even distribution of support across both its divisions. Our First Division has higher average crowds than practically all the the IL's premier division combined, and even First Division teams like Dundalk and Shels have average crowds that would pretty much out-do anyone in the IL bar Linfield and probably Glentoran. So the figures amy not bowl you over - but there certainly a lot stronger.
Also - if you want to cherry pick the IL's plum fixture for crowd comparison purposes, then you'd need to do likewise for the EL. Rovers v Bohs is rarely the best supported fixture in any year in the EL. For the last two seasons, for example, it was Derry v Cork, followed by a mix of games involving Cork, Shels, Derry and Drogheda. Rovers and Bohs are only really upper mid-table when it comes to crowds.
Their was over 12,000 at Boxing day match last year. Bigger than any league match you can come up with down south.
Although I would agree with your other points about the attendances are stronger through-out the league.
The Hallion Battalion Molests football.:D
Which is a great crowd. Now all you need is a new 2-team league structure.......
Hey Steve (the Derry one not the Linfield one!), I think I've read in a few places that some of the Eircom League's 1st Division matches have attracted crowds of under 50 in recent years.
Don't quote me on that, but if it's true, then you're overselling the crowds in the ROI's 1st division. I've no doubt that when you take out clubs like Shelbourne or Dundalk who get higher attendances than a lot of your Premier Div sides then the level of support would be no higher than the Irish League or even Welsh Premier, and would more accurately reflect the real level of support for that standard of play.
Also from some stuff I've read on here a lot of your Premier Division games attract fairly low crowds. I know a lot of overexaggeration likely goes on as to exactly how low they are but I read a figure of under 100 for a UCD game in a thread in the EL section the other day.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
Complete nonsense.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Hey, I just repeated what I read. I'm not the one making those claims.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
I was referring to those claims, nothing personal to you.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Well theres no doubting that attendances are poor for most clubs outside of Glentoran/Linfield and even then figures of 12000 for those two clubs will only be seen at a couple of matches a season.
I can only really speak for Cliftonville who I would say would be one of the better supported clubs outside of the Glens/Blues I would say that they would be get around 1000 for most of their games and at least double that at the big matches.
Although in saying that was at the opening CIS cup match against Limavady utd the other day and there couldn't have been much more than 500 at it and the weren't even any Limavady fans at the match!
Hey Cymro - read the EL attendances thread. You know where it is. Shows that crowds for many EL First Division teams surpass those of IL Premier teams. It also shows that EL First Division attendances wipe the floor with those of teams from your favourite hobby horse, the Welsh Premier.
Why you have to come into this section of the forum spouting nonesesnse on attendances, when you know full well there is a thread with the details on them layed out, frankly baffles me.
And if you aren't happy with the attendances listed on the EL attendnaces thread, take it up with the FAI and Genesis - both of whom are happy to use the figures from foot.ie
You know I only do it for the kicks. I apologise if I've pi$$ed you off now, maybe I was right about those crowds of 50?Hey Cymro - read the EL attendances thread. You know where it is. Shows that crowds for many EL First Division teams surpass those of IL Premier teams. It also shows that EL First Division attendances wipe the floor with those of teams from your favourite hobby horse, the Welsh Premier.
Why you have to come into this section of the forum spouting nonesesnse on attendances, when you know full well there is a thread with the details on them layed out, frankly baffles me.
And if you aren't happy with the attendances listed on the EL attendnaces thread, take it up with the FAI and Genesis - both of whom are happy to use the figures from foot.ie
I also apologise if a bit of friendly banter on a fairly light-hearted topic is not appropriate behaviour on a site that, in terms of football discussion, is one of the best I've posted on, which is why I post on here despite not being Irish or having any connection to Ireland.
Incidentally, I didn't know about the thread on attendances.
However, I have read up on them, and no I don't think I am spouting nonsense as you put it.
Here
Take out the bigger teams (let's say the top 3 crowd pullers) from the 1st Division every year and you're left with an average attendance ranging from around 250 to around 350.
The Welsh Premier averages around 250-300 in each season. I would not say that is spouting nonsense.
Now for God's sake relax and don't take it so seriously.
"Life is like a hair on a toilet seat. Sooner or later you are bound to get pi$$ed off."
"In this league, a draw is sometimes as good as a win" - Steve Morison
I attended the Derry v Drogs game at the Brandy in June (as a guest) and would be astounded if there were 3,500 at it. I don't believe the attendance for that game was published on the attendances thread.
It's debatable whether European performances have any tangible benefit, bar for a two week period around the games. I don't think media coverage has improved, nothing that can't be put down to the advent of Setanta Sports rather than summer football anyway. Improved player standards are to do with more professional set ups, the league playing more competitive wages compared to the UK meaning better players.
There is little evidence that it's Summer Football that has lead to any increase in attendances, particularly in the provincial clubs, and infact attendances are at their highest at the start and end of the seasons, not in the middle when the whether is supposed to be better. As ever, attendance is more to do with team performance rather than the time of year the game is played.
Summer football a success in the League of Ireland? There's nothing tangible to show it is, just the usual bull with no measurement that can quantify it one way or the other.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
There is nothing debatable about improved European performances give greater credibility to a league! It is the gauge by which the standard of a league is determined is it not? Therefore higher ranking gives less grounds for dismissal as irrelevant. I didnt tie European performance directly to media coverage but can you argue against the fact that there are more live LOI games covered now than in the past (and not just setanta matches)? I do agree that higher wages both attracts and retains a better standard of player. I would also argue that Irish players released by English clubs no longer see their careers as over and can return to Ireland and continue to develop.
Nothing tangible about success of summer football ok! but certainly anecdotal evidence....at least as tangible as claiming that there is a trend toward increased attendance early and late in a season which is normal at any season, could this have to do with early season enthusiam or late season championship/relegation run ins? rather than the fact that it is march or october. There are obviously arguments for and against, i dont see any reason for why attendances would have improved by playing over a winter season but to dismiss as 'usual bull' the merits of summer football as i see is lazy dismissiveness. Your logic could be applied to winter football too.
Apologies to Irish League forum for this digression.........
European performances have more to do with quality of players. More coverage has to do with marginally better committments tied in with the National Team TV Contract, and the advent of an Irish Sports Channel desperate for sports.
The ship has sailed in terms of changing back to a winter season, but that's not really the point. You're saying that the Irish League should follow our example and switch to a summer season because of the benefits it brings. The lesson the Irish League should really learn from us is don't go fookin around with it unless you can demostrate clear benefits and ways of measuring whether it's been a success or failure. Something the League of Ireland has never been able to do be that with the switch of seasons, changes in numbers, changes in formats.
If the aim of summer football is European progress, what are the tangible benefits of that? Bragging rights or something that actually means something? A couple of paydays if theres a favourable draw for one club a season*? What does it bring to the rest of the league? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but because the league have/ had no way of measuring anything or aims of the switch we simply don't know and that's no basis for doing something as major as switching season.
*It's debatable whether this even has that much long term benefit, given the example of Shels, and even Bohs that frittered away the returns of Aberdeen/ Kaiserslautern (sp?)
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
3000 & 2000 apparently. Portadown like Cliftonville would be lucky to average 1000 these days
Thats fair enough, I don't doubt that the EL has better crowds overall, nor that the standard of football is higher.
But the biggest derby in the north does appear to pull a bigger crowd.
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