Double standards that annoy you

[paul_oshea]

boz, very good post, it only took you a few hours to come back with that, unfortunately at work I work, and only get to post quick replys. However well written, constructed and thought-provoking your post may well be, it still stands, it was a unisex hair salon, that had pictures of men and women on the walls, like most salons. they didnt cut my hair, and made up some pathetic excuse whilst at the same time just looked at me like i was bothering them or I shouldnt have even entered the place, laughing as to say "what is he doing here", fair play if you have never experienced, i am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to put across how I felt and my view on this. If I were a black person and came on with any of this, it would straight away have brought out the PC brigade without a second thought.

You do not seem to appreciate that condescension remains the appropriate tone to take while making the same points you continue to be unable to understand. :ah, bless:

Nice finish though to your post, quite apt really, to your overall "tone"...im sure you will get me

If you're talking solely about the British-spawned media, then they are of course beneath contempt and have nothing to do with rational debate.

Of course, because you say so

[jebus]

If you're talking solely about the British-spawned media, then they are of course beneath contempt and have nothing to do with rational debate.

Oh I'm talking solely about British spawned media, who, like it or not, seem to reflect the attitudes of society better than anything we currently have. It's sad that most people's views are shaped by tabloids and their ilk (The Indo, Daily Mail etc.), but that's the way it is. If they run a story saying a white/black guy was racially abused in a hair salon people will form their opinions around the headline (does anyone actually read tabloid articles?) and go from there

[Dodge]

great posting Erstwhile. We have a thread like this every now and again

[Erstwhile Bóz]

However well written, constructed and thought-provoking your post may well be, it still stands, it was a unisex hair salon, that had pictures of men and women on the walls, like most salons. they didnt cut my hair, and made up some pathetic excuse whilst at the same time just looked at me like i was bothering them or I shouldnt have even entered the place, laughing as to say "what is he doing here", fair play if you have never experienced, i am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to put across how I felt and my view on this. If I were a black person and came on with any of this, it would straight away have brought out the PC brigade without a second thought.

But you see, that's grand and I have no problem with that at all and every sympathy with you, UNTIL your last sentence, where you make this mental leap.

Thanks for the compliment on my post, by the way, but I must disabuse you of the notion that <time of post> - <time of reply> = <time spent replying>. I'm able to keep different windows open on my computer; the IT department here are amazing.

Nice finish though to your post, quite apt really, to your overall "tone"...im sure you will get me

I'm quite sure I don't know what you could possibly be talking about...

Of course, because you say so

We know so. It is an immutable truth of any Irish internet forum, a fall-back aphorism of brotherhood in times of divisive debate.

[paul_oshea]

We know so. It is an immutable truth of any Irish internet forum, a fall-back aphorism of brotherhood in times of divisive debate.

well if nothing else you bring humour to over-ride( overshadow perhaps ) your inability to back up points, and that my lad, is very impressive

But you see, that's grand and I have no problem with that at all and every sympathy with you, UNTIL your last sentence, where you make this mental leap.

The mental leap doesnt follow much of a neural network, or does it?* Because the whole idea of neural networks is assumptions can be made based on the previous linked-list. Put another way, I have seen it from before, if a poster makes a post anyway like this then its jumped on and there are many a slapped wrist.

*Unless, of course, you never knew whether I was black or white

[paul_oshea]

when i say jumped on, I mean its taken straight away as being racist, discriminatory whatever you want to call it.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

well if nothing else you bring humour to over-ride( overshadow perhaps ) your inability to back up points, and that my lad, is very impressive

Whereas you, The Assumer, merely have to consult your neural networks to back up your leaps of logic. What have I not backed up? I'm working with the facts you have supplied and drawing unspectacular conclusions.

Put another way, I have seen it from before, if a poster makes a post anyway like this then its jumped on and there are many a slapped wrist.

But what do you think are the reasons for this? And what do you see as being the defining characteristics of your post or posts like it? Honest questions.

(Please refrain from invoking any images of the Über-PC Brigade in your answer.)

[jebus]

great posting Erstwhile. We have a thread like this every now and again

Good times, good memories, thanks for bringing that one back Dodge

[Erstwhile Bóz]

We have a thread like this every now and again

So ... circular! It's ... it's beautiful. I'll desist, so.

Racism is all about the context and nobody but paul_oshea was there, man, so sure I'll leave it at that.

[citizenerased]

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

[jebus]

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

As a member of a pub owning family I'd like to say that we don't allow 'knackers' in to our bar, be they part of the travelling community, or just plain ol' scumbags. History has taught a lot of people in the trade that you're asking for trouble by letting them in, and I've always found that to be true. It's a shame, as I'm sure some of them are decent people who want a quiet pint, sadly since they choose to live as a community, they can die as a community as well*

*figure of speech obviously, just in case someone started on me for advocating a genocide

[paul_oshea]

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers, branding a whole section of community witht the same brush..depriving them of work and entrance to social establishments.

exactly.

But what do you think are the reasons for this? And what do you see as being the defining characteristics of your post or posts like it? Honest questions.

I cant. Because I am banned from a certain sub-forum, but I remember a couple of posters getting their wrist slapped ( me not included - for once )

It just goes back to citizens point really. You, Irish are complete hypocrites *

Please note the un-PC grammatically incorrect semantics above without the use of the word "we".

[superfrank]

One thing I notice a lot which I detest is the way some people are treated because of their nationality, not necessarily racist.

For instance, when George Best died there was lots of noise down here as people calling him the "greatest Irish footballer ever". He was Northern Irish and I'm sure there were a lot of Southerners who didn't like him during hios playing days because of his roots yet when he dies and everyone's calling him the greatest, the papers are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and call him Irish.

Another instance is with Andy Murray. When he wins he's British but when he's doing badly he's Scottish.

I hate that.

[Dodge]

why is there such a necessity to be PC. irish people are such hypocrites, they go on about ya cant say this, ya cant say that. then at the same time, knacker this knacker that, smelly knackers

Are you sure its the same people?

[noby]

Are you sure its the same people?

All those Irish, they're all the same.

[jebus]

Actually I'd just like to further my previous point. I have never called any member of the travelling community 'knacker', without the added ' ' of course. I don't think I'm being completely hypocritical, a small bit maybe, but not totally when I say I wouldn't allow them into my bar.

Maybe you have to be in the service industry to understand, but anyone who has ever worked in a bar will tell you that when you get a call that there is a traveller funeral, wedding, party etc. on in town you close your door. The reasons for this are, generally they don't come in to town for drinks, unless it's an occasion, and when there is an occasion they tend, as a group, to get completely bladdered and rowdy, and are quite difficult to get rid of when you are closing up. Furthermore, your main customers, the guys who come in everyday of the week, wouldn't want their night ruined by having to listen to people singing and shouting, people dancing around etc. If students did it I wouldn't let them in, same goes for anyone else.

I also worked in a cinema when I was younger, and there was quite a few instances on a Sunday afternoon (Rathkeale travellers tend to go to the cinema in Limerick at this time) where they had to be asked to leave for talking loudly during the movie, and sometimes for smearing their own **** on the bathroom walls (normally it would be the kid/teenage ones who did this particular act), so after a while the cinema started banning particular families of them from coming in. I don't count that as discrimination, they were given a chance, and blew it, and the cinema had to start thinking about their well-mannered customers.

As I said, it's a shame it happens, but it's also a shame that there is a sizeable element amongst them that wants to cause trouble, or at the very least don't give a toss about other people and their enjoyment. As a group that are proud of their community ties, and the fact that they are so closely knit, then the reprocussions of the whole group being banned from pubs, cinemas etc. for the actions of some shouldn't be considered in the same league as racism, or homophobic abuse in my opinion

[stann]

I didn't do anything to any coloured (sorry don't know which word to use there) person, neither did anyone else on here
Why should we have to fret about them? The world doesn't owe them a living because of something that happened decades ago.
It's the equivalent of not being able to walk past an English person without them offering you a good feed

Specious agrument. We're talking about races here, not individuals.

Does it really kill you not to be able to use a word? Use a different one. How hard is that?
Would you like being called 'Mick' or 'bogtrotter' all the time by British bulldog combat 18 types? Or would you say, well they can't mean me cos my name's not Michael and I've never even been in a bog?

[paul_oshea]

Another instance is with Andy Murray. When he wins he's British but when he's doing badly he's Scottish.

I hate that.

when harrington won the open last week, they went "Padraig tops the list" and then in the paragraph box below it says "HOW THE OTHER BRITISH GOLFERS FARED"

I have so many examples of that, but I wont bother going into it. He( as in anyone ) is an Ulsterman/British when doing well, but he is Irish when doing bad.

Maybe you have to be in the service industry to understand, but anyone who has ever worked in a bar will tell you that when you get a call that there is a traveller funeral, wedding, party etc. on in town you close your door. The reasons for this are, generally they don't come in to town for drinks, unless it's an occasion, and when there is an occasion they tend, as a group, to get completely bladdered and rowdy, and are quite difficult to get rid of when you are closing up. Furthermore, your main customers, the guys who come in everyday of the week, wouldn't want their night ruined by having to listen to people singing and shouting, people dancing around etc. If students did it I wouldn't let them in, same goes for anyone else.

Yes I know what you mean, we own a B&B at home anyhow, we let travellers stay twice, both times they knicked all the sheets and towels. Last time we let travellers stay because of this, jebus the point you are trying to get across, is you have to be a realist ( because of past experiences ) when working in the services industry. Its as simple as that, its harsh, but its true.

[stann]

Where'nt slaves picked from the west coast of ireland ?

Yes you're right, the handful of slaves taken from Ireland by the Barbary corsairs (North Africans and various converted Muslims mainly) easily makes up for the thousands and thousands and thousands of black Africans that were taken.

[superfrank]

I have so many examples of that, but I wont bother going into it. He( as in anyone ) is an Ulsterman/British when doing well, but he is Irish when doing bad.

They don't have to be Ulstermen, I've heard English reporters calling Robbie Keane British.