War

[sadloserkid]

I personally think we should have yeah. That's probably just my youthful idealism shining through though!

[DrogMan]

Even though it sickens me to say so, I think Connor is right. No government here would risk all that so that they could say that they are neutral, I think not!!
It just goes to show what a sad and crap world we live in today, but like most things we have to make the most of it so I try and not dwell on it too much as the Yanks and Brits maybe riding high at the moment but you know the saying, "What goes up must come down"

[Badweather Fan]

Originally posted by Conor74
Hopefully one of them B52's taken out by a little fellow with a RPG grenade launcher sitting on a camel... I am one of those that would love to see a little bit of the smugness, the "best weaponry in the world" humbled a little.

Of course, I hope the crew eject safely and get away - I have said it before, these people are just cannon fodder and have no part to play in the decision making. But I just wanna see some fireworks, a "BOOM" that doesn't contain an Iraq orphanage or hospital in the middle of it...

Know what you're saying alrightbuthey've had a good few 'losses' already to watch.
Tariq Aziz was doing a Naseem Hamed impression there while ago.
"They will lose.
Come here and they will die.
They will be buried in the Iraqi desert."
Strong words.

[pete]

The irish governemnet hide behind a 2nd UN rsolution for weeks until that never happened.

FF have been the so called bastions of neutrality over the years so a bit ironic they be the party to final show up the chirade it really was.

I'm not keen on neutrality but according to the laws of this country (or at least the implied laws) letting the US airforce land at Shannon is most probably illegal.

If the irish government were so comfortable in their policy to support the US why they keep it a secret so long?

[Badweather Fan]

Whats the story about the Shannon landings being legally challenged by some Vietnam veteran Irishman?

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by sadloserkid
That's a pretty sick concept... Roy Keane would never hear of such a thing!!!

I hate having to agree with Conor , but, biased neutrality has been the lot of the Irish Government ever since the concept was 'born' during the 2nd World War. To forcefully, and meaningfully, take on the Yanks would mean Ireland losing alot more than we'd gain. Yeah, we'd gain the moral high ground, a clear conscience and thecapacity to sleep easily at night, but, what price that if our economy goes down the bloody s***ter??

[Macy]

Originally posted by pete
FF have been the so called bastions of neutrality over the years so a bit ironic they be the party to final show up the chirade it really was.

I'm not keen on neutrality but according to the laws of this country (or at least the implied laws) letting the US airforce land at Shannon is most probably illegal.

Interesting that FF are willing to give up neutrality in support of this war, but during WWII Dev wasn't willing to give up neutrality in the case of a just war (against Hitler and Facism) in return for the United Ireland that Churchill was offering....

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by Macy
Interesting that FF are willing to give up neutrality in support of this war, but during WWII Dev wasn't willing to give up neutrality in the case of a just war (against Hitler and Facism) in return for the United Ireland that Churchill was offering....

It pains me to say this, but, Dev was damn right not to go for that one. Would've been alot more trouble than it was worth trying to control an overwhelming, and militant, Protestant population. We'd have been left with a second serious civil war on our hands.

[pete]

Originally posted by Shed End John
...but, what price that if our economy goes down the bloody s***ter??

How? Shannon is nothing more than convenience top the US (i.e. if stopped using they'd just land in the UK or Germany) so what exactely would the US do to Ireland if it was blocked cos of neutrality?



btw Turkey at least got 1billion for only allowing over flight rights.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by pete
How?

Simple, if we were to rub the Yanks up the wrong way, and they decided to cut any and all trading ties with us, how do you think that would affect the Irish economy, seeing as America is one of our two biggest trading partners?? Britain being the other.

[Schumi]

There's no chance of that happening. The Irish-American lobby would go ape ****, the EU would go ape **** and I doubt it's even an issue for the yanks in the first place.

[pete]

Originally posted by Shed End John
Simple, if we were to rub the Yanks up the wrong way, and they decided to cut any and all trading ties with us, how do you think that would affect the Irish economy, seeing as America is one of our two biggest trading partners?? Britain being the other.

Not possible. Heard of something called the World Trade Org? Do you think the US would risk a trade war with the UE just cos they have to use another airport?

Interestingly the US almost sent a rite to the WTO so they could block something like 4billion worth of french imports but backed off when they realised the French already had a similar case lined up against the US - Even dubya isn't stupid enough to start a trade war with no winners.

[Shed End John]

Originally posted by pete
Not possible. Heard of something called the World Trade Org? Do you think the US would risk a trade war with the UE just cos they have to use another airport?

And how would that ever happen? Ireland is a small, two-bit player in EU terms. They're NEVER going to bend over backwards on our account.

[Macy]

Originally posted by Conor74
Macy, if you thought Churchill, of all people, was going to give up NI, of all places, and leave the Unionists, of all communities, fend for themselves in a United Ireland....then...then...we differ in opinion... We were neutral because it was a bit soon to be fighting with the British after the War of Independence and the Economic War.

Well that was the offer on the table, and all that would've been needed was some kind of treaty backed by the yanks....
The whole not fighting with the Brits thing is a cop out - it was fighting Hitler and the Nazi's, and Facism in general not some imperal war.... For starters when that offer was made the Yanks were fully involved....

For once I'm not just having a pop at FF for the sake of it, simply highlighting yet more inconsistencies....

[Macy]

Defo, just wait for hell to finish freezing over first....