under 21s

[gael353]

Over the weekend I went to an under 21 game. I’ve been going to the 21s for the last 3 years or so as the football is really good and fast. Officials in this league are not usually LOI officials and are instead chosen from the local leagues. So a local team will usually have an all local official list. Despite the under 21s not getting any pay, little or no gate receipts, travel, food and maybe pitch rental, the officials are paid handsomely for basically walking across the road.

I’ve watched excellent teams get beaten by home town decisions, where the ref could be related to someone on the home team. I’ve seen quarter and semi finals of premier under 21 leagues being played on the worse of junior pitches, but one thing these officials have in common is, there crap! With a GAA style of reffing the norm (stand at the half way line and whistle and never move from that position) you really have to ask is this the best young talent at your club can be offered?

These officials aren’t used to the passion, fervour, humour, of the everyday LOI supporter so you can imagine what usually happens when someone other then the normal under 21 supporter (family, junior club rep etc)turns up!

Waterford and Limerick were playing in the Waterford crystal sports facilities on Saturday. Now Waterford won well (2 1), they were the better, bigger and much older team the limerick lads who were all just 18 and the likes. I was at the corner flag in this windswept playing area consisting of a football pitch, two GAA pitches and I think a rugby pitch. There was a questionable foul by a limerick player on a Waterford player in that corner and to my surprise the official flagged hysterically as if a player was mortally wounded. I simply said to him “are you serious?” which he responded to shouting “GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY” ala John O’Donaghue. I said I’m watching the game and I’m going no where to which he started flagging and calling the ref over to deal with me. The ref, whose name was….Maaaaaaaaa,! (Not sure how many “a”s) left his half way line position and asked me to “leave him alone or ill get you booted out, and if you don’t go ill call off the game!”

So for questioning a touch judges decision, the only people in this wide open space who were getting paid, were going to call off a game (1 min or 90 mins they still get paid?)

This level of refereeing is unacceptable. I know it’s the cheap option but surely LOI refs should be asked/made to ref one senior and one under 21 games in a weekend to bring in a bit of “better professionalism” and show the young players who they are officiating over that you have indeed come up a level.

BTW a few things. A foul in under 21 level seems to be a whistle (blown from the half way line) and no foul is folded arms (while at the half way line). A lot of rolling arms and leg movement (from the half way line) seems to be significant also but I can’t figure that out yet after three years. Maybe it’s some sort of mating thing among referees. Anyone else have opinions or stories of under 21 officals?

[Rory H]

you should experience our games, the referee is from sligo but his bias against us is so obvious. its a disgrace

[sligoman]

I've been going to U-21 games for 3 years now and the ref has always been a joke. The same ref got rewarded with a trip to Malta for an U-21 international last month. He was linesman there.

[Schumi]

I have to say I've never noticed any real difference in refereeing in under 21 games and EL games.

[galwayhoop]

I have to say I've never noticed any real difference in refereeing in under 21 games and EL games.

afaik dublin has a much better standard of refereeing as there are far more LOI referees. I have heard many complaitnts about refeering standards in the West where predominantly local/junior referees are used. As there is no CSL and only junior football in connaght, the referees and linesmen are from junior grade where the pace of the game is nowhere near U21 and the acceptable standard for refs is far lower.

[Schumi]

afaik dublin has a much better standard of refereeing as there are far more LOI referees.

Fair enough, that makes sense.

[superfrank]

I'll never forget the time a Bray under-21 player was sent off for kicking the ball at the linesman. It's not as bad as it sounds....

There'd been a free kick given to the other side and the Bray player (Keith Kelch, iirc) kickked the ball away. But he put a bit too much into it and the ball smacked the lino about ten yards away square in the ribs. He was winded for the rest of the match and kept pressing his ribs. I don't think it was intentional.

I honestly find that I am ****ed with ref decisions at senior games a lot more then at the under-21's. I don't know if the refs are better or not but they definitely don't make as many dodgy calls.

[DmanDmythDledge]

In our quarter final against Bray lasy year one of our defenders simply passed the ball to someone else on our team and was sent off.

[BrayUnknowns]

I'll never forget the time a Bray under-21 player was sent off for kicking the ball at the linesman. It's not as bad as it sounds....

There'd been a free kick given to the other side and the Bray player (Keith Kelch, iirc) kickked the ball away. But he put a bit too much into it and the ball smacked the lino about ten yards away square in the ribs. He was winded for the rest of the match and kept pressing his ribs. I don't think it was intentional.

I honestly find that I am ****ed with ref decisions at senior games a lot more then at the under-21's. I don't know if the refs are better or not but they definitely don't make as many dodgy calls.

One of the funniest moments i have ever seen in football! and yes it was Keltchy alright, tried to keep the ball in and smacked it as the ref blew his whistle, smacked into the side of the lino who crumbled like he had been shot. Was at another of our U21 games a few seasons ago and th ball was drilled at the ref (Rhona D) and she caught the bloody ball !

Reffing is normally not that bad, normally an eL ref or assistant that do it, maybe we dont think there's as much at stake in these games so dont go as mad at some of the decisions they make?

[Copa Mundial]

The u-21 league is used as a breeder ground for the most part for officials who are on the eircom league panel of officials but who do not referee in the premier and first divisions in senior football. The same way it is used as a breeder ground for clubs to use to blood their young players. The same standard may not be there as far as officials are concerned but that is due in no small part due to a little inexperience. The same can be said of the players, the same standard of play cannot be expected of those who are less experienced than players who play for the first team.
There are exceptions around the country where established referees referee u-21 matches, i have seen them. It appears that in the u-21 league that officials are appointed due to locality. This would be for many reasons, cost is always a factor. The officials are chosen from the panel of appointed eircom league officials but from time to time, local officials may be used due to unavailability of eircom officials but as assistant referees as opposed to referees.
It is important to remember that these officials are part time. It would be very difficult to travel to cork on friday to ref a game and then return to dublin and ref an u-21 game on saturday afternoon. There simply aren't enough officials for that to happen.

[superfrank]

Reffing is normally not that bad, normally an eL ref or assistant that do it, maybe we dont think there's as much at stake in these games so dont go as mad at some of the decisions they make?

Perhaps. You'd look like a bit of a nutter alright, down the Carlisle on a Tuesday night with maybe 50 other people and standing there bellowing at the ref and the lino. But then again I just can't remember anytime that a ref decision in an under-21s game has really wound me up.

[KevB76]

I've only been to one U21 game, L37 v Salthill friendly a couple of weeks ago. I thought the ref and lino's were top class. I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the officials at this particular game Gael ?

[gael353]

The u-21 league is used as a breeder ground for the most part for officials who are on the eircom league panel of officials but who do not referee in the premier and first divisions in senior football. The same way it is used as a breeder ground for clubs to use to blood their young players.

Well if thats true then we're ****ed in future as most of them that ive seen are over age, over weight and over paid!

The same standard may not be there as far as officials are concerned but that is due in no small part due to a little inexperience. The same can be said of the players, the same standard of play cannot be expected of those who are less experienced than players who play for the first team.

Sorry mate im not swallowing that **** at all, take off the refs outfit cos thats just propaganda talk

There are exceptions around the country where established referees referee u-21 matches, i have seen them. It appears that in the u-21 league that officials are appointed due to locality. This would be for many reasons, cost is always a factor. The officials are chosen from the panel of appointed eircom league officials but from time to time, local officials may be used due to unavailability of eircom officials but as assistant referees as opposed to referees.

From what ive seen over the last three years el refs only get involved at 1/4 final stage and the ****e are left to say who comes out of each group. Location being the main reason and yes they are overpaid for their crapness.

It is important to remember that these officials are part time. It would be very difficult to travel to cork on friday to ref a game and then return to dublin and ref an u-21 game on saturday afternoon. There simply aren't enough officials for that to happen.

No one is asking them to and you are after stating extremely unlikely rubbish. again all i asked was that EL refs ref an under 21 game in on the same weekend, it can be their local under 21 team but at least it wont be some non moving half way line GAA ref laughing as he gets paid for bulling young players

[gael353]

I've only been to one U21 game, L37 v Salthill friendly a couple of weeks ago. I thought the ref and lino's were top class. I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the officials at this particular game Gael ?

sorry Kev if that was you reffing lol but i was a busy sorting stuff in the ground that night. Limerick to be fair use refs who are not in the LDMC duristiction to be fair and use refs from Desmond and Clare but the standard isnt that great either.

[KevB76]

sorry Kev if that was you reffing lol but i was a busy sorting stuff in the ground that night. Limerick to be fair use refs who are not in the LDMC duristiction to be fair and use refs from Desmond and Clare but the standard isnt that great either.

Wasn't me, no chance, I'm far too mentally fragile to cope with stick that most ref's suffer

The reason I asked is the lino's at that game were two of only four young Limerick ref's recently selected for some special ref training course organised by the FAI, basically they are the cream of the crop and if you werent happy with them then god help us all all as these lads are future of EL reffing. Anyways I thought they were decent, and isn't it reassuring to know that at least our U21's home games will be reffed by the best

[Copa Mundial]

Well if thats true then we're ****ed in future as most of them that ive seen are over age, over weight and over paid!




Sorry mate im not swallowing that **** at all, take off the refs outfit cos thats just propaganda talk




From what ive seen over the last three years el refs only get involved at 1/4 final stage and the ****e are left to say who comes out of each group. Location being the main reason and yes they are overpaid for their crapness.




No one is asking them to and you are after stating extremely unlikely rubbish. again all i asked was that EL refs ref an under 21 game in on the same weekend, it can be their local under 21 team but at least it wont be some non moving half way line GAA ref laughing as he gets paid for bulling young players

Well thats me told! All educated responses, you must more than me on this topic. I'll leave well enough alone. Knowledge is the key!!!

[stann]

Feel I must respond to a couple of points made here, a bit misleading I'm afraid Gael, have to stick up for the local lads. This is just in reply to what you posted, not getting in the middle of your debate with Copa Mundial.
First off, the Waterford team may have been bigger but they were not 'much older'. 5 of the side won the Munster Youth Cup with Tramore only last year FFS, and a 6th would have started only he got sick before the game. Only Fennelly (last minute replacement GK) and Stephen Cooling (himself hardly a hulking giant of a man) would be considered senior players.

Secondly, Maa may not be the best referee, but any Waterford ball player on here will tell you he's an honest guy, very fair and is definitely not one of these centre circle refs, of which there is plenty it's true.
Also I'm surprised as a Limerick fan you didn't recognise one of the linesmen was none other than former Blues and Limerick legend Johnny Matthews. I hope it wasn't the one you were abusing!

The ref, whose name was….Maaaaaaaaa,! (Not sure how many “a”s) left his half way line position and asked me to “leave him alone or ill get you booted out, and if you don’t go ill call off the game!”

So for questioning a touch judges decision, the only people in this wide open space who were getting paid, were going to call off a game (1 min or 90 mins they still get paid?)

Read your own post again. The ref, by your words above, clearly said to you (rightly or wrongly) to stop arguing with the linesman, that if you didn't stop arguing with the linesman he would then get you removed, and then if you didn't go at that stage he would stop the game. That's a bit different from 'going to call off the game for questioning a decision', no?
Your overall point is a very valid one that doesn't need to be lessened by exaggerations like this.

[Blue Man]

Rhona hates me!! Ive been playing at the u 21 grade for 3 years now and she's booked me 3 times out of 5 games!! And i'm a goalkeeper!!!

[gael353]

Feel I must respond to a couple of points made here, a bit misleading I'm afraid Gael, have to stick up for the local lads. This is just in reply to what you posted, not getting in the middle of your debate with Copa Mundial.

Misleading? never

First off, the Waterford team may have been bigger but they were not 'much older'. 5 of the side won the Munster Youth Cup with Tramore only last year FFS, and a 6th would have started only he got sick before the game. Only Fennelly (last minute replacement GK) and Stephen Cooling (himself hardly a hulking giant of a man) would be considered senior players.

Thats fair enough mate they just looked a lot older then ours as i think only 2 of ours maybe at max four in the squad are over 19, but this isnt in stone so i maybe incorrect.


[QUOTE=stann;718511Secondly, Maa may not be the best referee, but any Waterford ball player on here will tell you he's an honest guy, very fair and is definitely not one of these centre circle refs, of which there is plenty it's true.
Also I'm surprised as a Limerick fan you didn't recognise one of the linesmen was none other than former Blues and Limerick legend Johnny Matthews. I hope it wasn't the one you were abusing! .[/QUOTE]

Fair honest whatever hes still not upto it IMO. your introducing a word there that i dont think i used "abusing"

Read your own post again. The ref, by your words above, clearly said to you (rightly or wrongly) to stop arguing with the linesman, that if you didn't stop arguing with the linesman he would then get you removed, and then if you didn't go at that stage he would stop the game. That's a bit different from 'going to call off the game for questioning a decision', no?

Oops there you go again "abusing" and im reading "my own words" and i dont see any mention of abusing anyone. The ref did not ask me to stop arguing with lino he asked me to move away and leave him alone, again you use "arguing" with the lino but clearly i wasnt arguing with him only questioning his decision making and your right there is a massive differance .....with what you say i said and what i know i said or didnt say but keep typing it cos its fantastic stuff


[QUOTE=stann;718511Your overall point is a very valid one that doesn't need to be lessened by exaggerations like this.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the first part and i wont bother about the second only to applaud you for spelling such a big and challenging word

[gael353]

Well thats me told! All educated responses, you must more than me on this topic. I'll leave well enough alone. Knowledge is the key!!!

No i do not no more then the next man but if its reffing your saying then knowledge deffo isnt the key. Your responces are excellent and well thought out and prob better spelt then mine