World Ranking

[eirebhoy]

Well to be perfectly honest, as a Celtic fan, I'd have McShane over Caldwell, McManus and Pressley any day. Who else is he up against? Weir?

Scotland have good midfield players but not too much else.

[Cymro]

look, its pretty simple. Neither the Irish team nor the Scots are good teams. YoungIrish, your posts are a bit embarrassing really.

If you want to look at history, the Scots' history and tradition in qualifying for major tournaments is far and away better than ours. We had a good spell in the late 80s, early 90s but thats hardly relevant in terms of how good we are now.

Ignoring history and looking at the current state of each squad, Ferguson (maybe) and Fletcher (definitely) would be in the Irish team/squad (probably others too). Strangely, however, i dont envy the Scottish position as i feel our team has greater potential and a brighter future but to say that we are a far superior team TODAY is way way off the mark. We should discuss it in 2-4 years time.

Cymro, i tend to agree with most of your posts on this matter but to say the Jack Charlton simply overachieved is not fair. It is widely acknowledged that we had a very talented squad of players from 87-96. A lot of the players would have walked onto the English team from the same era. McGrath, Whelan, Brady, O'Leary, Stapleton, Irwin, Aldridge to name a few.

I don't really disagree with anything you say, in that the Jack Charlton era was a good one, but in relation to youngirish's (and yours) comments, firstly, the England sides of the 70s and 80s failed to even qualify for a few things and indeed that was probably the low point of their history. So while I agree on that the impression I got from youngirish was that he felt that side would have been one of the best in the world in those days. I would have to disagree with that although it was a good team.

Also Scotland have had just as good teams if not better in the past, notably in the Souness/Dalglish era.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I don't 'have it in' for anyone, not even youngirish. But this is a debate and as such I am entitled to be blunt in my views if I strongly disagree with someone.

I think you missed the 'Question Mark' in my post Cymro. Reproduced and highlighted below for truth and accuracy sake.

YI -will you ever take the steel rod out of your ass. Now Cymro AND Ealing Green have it in for us because they're "biased"? Jesus aren't we blessed to have your non-hysterical, non-partisan analysis of the relative merits of those togging out for neighbouring associations -not to mind our own.

As for Jack Charlton -on the whole he had a bloody good bunch of players. Pity he didn't have just a little bit more up front maybe. Also -he did less than he might have to ensure there was a good crop on the way up behind them.

[Cymro]

I think you missed the 'Question Mark' in my post Cymro. Reproduced and highlighted below for truth and accuracy sake.



As for Jack Charlton -on the whole he had a bloody good bunch of players. Pity he didn't have just a little bit more up front maybe. Also -he did less than he might have to ensure there was a good crop on the way up behind them.

I was in a bit of a rush when posting earlier, so that's probably why I made the oversight.

Not the first time that's happened to me here though so you'll probably get used to it soon enough.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I was in a bit of a rush when posting earlier, so that's probably why I made the oversight.

Not the first time that's happened to me here though so you'll probably get used to it soon enough.

Don't worry about it. I did it on a political discussion in 'Current Affairs' a while back and hammered some guy who I thought had just confessed to being a neo-nazi

[Wolfie]

Regarding having a similar level of players to us, that is Cymro a load of old nonsense and you know it.

Finnan - a champions league winner and arguably one of the best right backs in the world. Recognised as such by his fellow professionals as he is a regular in the Premiership team of the season.
Given - one of the best Premiership keepers for over a decade. Again possibly one of the best in the world in his position and also a regular member of the team of the season (more so than any other goalkeeper in Premiership history if memory serves me correctly).
Robbie Keane - commanded tens of millions of pounds in transfer fees from top clubs all over Europe before he was 22, keeps an England International out of the first team at Spurs.
Damien Duff - won the Premiership twice. Until recently one of the most highly rated wingers in the Premiership until struggling with injury problems recently however can still turn on the style on his day and would stroll into the Scotland team on one leg (McGeady would even get his game for them).
Richard Dunne - Man City player of the season a record 3 times in a row ahead of Shaun Wright Phillips a few seasons ago another full English International.
Kevin Doyle - unarguably one of the best young players in probably the strongest league in the world at present. A nominee for young player of the season even after a long period of abscence through injury.
McShane - one of the most sought after young players outside the Premiership

Scotland
Shaun Maloney - Average (at best) Villa player.
Barry Ferguson - Blackburn reject nowhere near as good as any of our midfielders (even young Stephen Ireland).
Darren Fletcher - United part time player, atrocious. As I said similar to JOS and anyone that thinks we need him in our team needs serious help.
Kenny Miller - Average Championship striker.
Kris Boyd - Decent SPL striker, doubt he has the pace to make it in a more competitive league. Would get a place on our bench.

Cyrmo give it up if you are seriously suggesting Scotland have better or even as good individual players as us then you have a serious bias against the Republic team. Any neutral with a clue about football would struggle to find more than 2 players in their team that are of better quality than one of our players in the same position.

On an individual basis I'd certainly rate the Irish players over the vast maority of their opposite number.

However, the "Team ethhic" is an important element in comparing the merits of the current Irish and Scottish teams.

Scotland have certainly functioned as a cohesive team - something that the Irish are only showing signs of achieving for the first time in many months (Please God let it be true for September).

Total commitment and a "better than the sum of its parts" aspect to a team can cover a multitude.

There was a certain aloofness and misplaced arrogance about some of the Irish players that could not be levelled at the Scots. However, hopefully this has been eradicated following the humbling results in Cyprus and near catastrophe in San Marino.

Everything is hinging on the Eastern games in September. Without being too melodramatic - this team are at a crossroads. Not only for our chances of qualification but in relation to how this team develops. Will the ship continue to steady or are we heading for more rocky waters?

[Stuttgart88]

Without being too melodramatic - this team are at a crossroads. Not only for our chances of qualification but in relation to how this team develops. Will the ship continue to steady or are we heading for more rocky waters?

Fair point. I contended that Kerr's team was at a crossroads traveling to Israel. They came back having taken a wrong turn and we're really only getting back to where we started.

[youngirish]

look, its pretty simple. Neither the Irish team nor the Scots are good teams. YoungIrish, your posts are a bit embarrassing really.

Embarrassing but you're generally agreeing with all my points (we had a good group of players in the 80's, few of the Scotland team are better than our first team players since you claim two of their apparently best players probably wouldn't even get a game for us, ancient qualifying history counts for nothing, both teams are poor). Seriously there is a very high percentage of slow learners on this board. I'm retiring you can't win with some of these muppets even when they agree with you?????????

SkStu if you actually read Cyrmo's posts (if you can read the big words) its obvious he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about so now when he's being pulled up on foolish statements he starts making things up to back his silly claims (apparently I said we had the best team in the world in the Charlton era and McShane was better than anything Scotalnd had - not true I highlighted his potential and some Scotland players that he mentioned complete lack of potential). Now after slagging McShane and getting some feedback from other posters that he's actually quite good it becomes glaringly obvious he remarked on him without knowing anything about him and is backtracking trying to cover his tracks.

Some sensible people have actually remarked on this matter and they whatever the muppets tend to say agree with my main point that we have better (far better) individual players than the Scots and a similar quality of a team as a whole which was my original main points so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway tbh I can't be bothered as I said I'm wasting my time reading such trash, it hurts my head to scowl through it.

[RogerMilla]

There was a certain aloofness and misplaced arrogance about some of the Irish players that could not be levelled at the Scots. However, hopefully this has been eradicated following the humbling results in Cyprus and near catastrophe in San Marino.

Everything is hinging on the Eastern games in September. Without being too melodramatic - this team are at a crossroads. Not only for our chances of qualification but in relation to how this team develops. Will the ship continue to steady or are we heading for more rocky waters?

i couldnt have put it any better , results on the road will give this team the self-belief to beat the germans in a full house in croker and challenge for qualification, we badly need to do well out there. two poor games and we are in a worse state than after san marino.

[RogerMilla]

Embarrassing
very high percentage of slow learners on this board
these muppets

(if you can read the big words)
its obvious he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
foolish statements
silly claims
trash, it hurts my head to scowl through it.

young irish , your posts are well out of order , if someone doesnt agree with you all you can do is make childish insults. Any point you thought you had has been negated by the comments above.

[Lionel Ritchie]

young irish , your posts are well out of order , if someone doesnt agree with you all you can do is make childish insults. Any point you thought you had has been negated by the comments above.

I wouldn't worry about it RM. I've a little fellah who similarly repeats himself over and over when he's knackered.

I'm retiring you can't win with some of these muppets even when they agree with you?????????
...Anyway tbh I can't be bothered as I said I'm wasting my time reading such trash, it hurts my head to scowl through it.

Diddums. Retiring probably is for the best then. Say night-night to the Tombliboos, Makka Pakka, Igglepiggle and Upsy Daisy before you toddle off now.

[Paddy Garcia]

Shouldn't you be off doing the lotto because you know what numbers are going to come out tonight? At least that's what you'll tell people tomorrow in the pub but alas you never got round to buying a ticket.

Either that or trying to predict the Ireland team in 3012 when the planet is ruled by apes.

How old are you?

[Cymro]

SkStu if you actually read Cyrmo's posts (if you can read the big words) its obvious he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about so now when he's being pulled up on foolish statements he starts making things up to back his silly claims (apparently I said we had the best team in the world in the Charlton era and McShane was better than anything Scotalnd had - not true I highlighted his potential and some Scotland players that he mentioned complete lack of potential). Now after slagging McShane and getting some feedback from other posters that he's actually quite good it becomes glaringly obvious he remarked on him without knowing anything about him and is backtracking trying to cover his tracks.

I think I've been wrong on one thing in this debate which was the Defoe thing. I'll hold my hands up to that but the rest is all valid, and if you actually read over your own posts, you might see how I came to the conclusions I did.

There's absolutely no need to resort to saying that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. If I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, how come you haven't really answered a lot of my points?

[SkStu]

less of the big words Cymro, im struggling to follow your post...

YoungIrish, reading over your posts again it appears to me that you've managed to argue all sides of the debate whilst excelling at insult, deflection and hyperbole. Thats whats embarassing. Everything else in my post is simply my opinion on the matter and is not an attempt to address you directly.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I think I've been wrong on one thing in this debate which was the Defoe thing. I'll hold my hands up to that but the rest is all valid, and if you actually read over your own posts, you might see how I came to the conclusions I did.

There's absolutely no need to resort to saying that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. If I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, how come you haven't really answered a lot of my points?

While I think it was an act of idiocy, sabotage or madness to do so ...Sven took a 17 year old he'd no intention of playing to the world cup last summer instead of Defoe. I don't say that to put the boy down ...I remember at the time saying I'd have retired from International football in protest if I were him ...but I think it says something about the esteem or lack of it in which he's held. But that's England for you.

[EalingGreen]

No it doesn't.
As for EalingGreen disagreeing and stating Scotland are better than the Republic. How surprising is that? He probably still thinks David Healy is better than Henry because he scored more goals against Liechenstein so I tend to treat everything that he says about ROI or NI for that matter with an ocean of salt.

I happen to think Scotland have been consistently better than ROI over the last couple of years not because I'm "biased", but because of their respective results over that period.

As for what I say about ROI or NI - well, people can make up their own minds.

As for what you say about ROI or NI, here's a sampler from February:

"You [Ealing Green] are so biased you no longer inhabit reality as far as football is concerned. Sweden the end of March will give you a reality check if Liechenstein don't manage to do it beforehand"

In case you've forgotten:
Liechtenstein 1 v 4 NI
NI 2 v 1 Sweden

David Healy scored 5 goals in those two games, to take his tally to 9 goals in 6 Euro2008 matches - the highest scorer in the Tournament to date.

As for Healy and Henry, obviously there's no comparison between the two as players - as evidenced by Barcelona paying £18 million for Henry just now. It is interesting, however, that whilst Henry has scored 39 goals in 92 matches for France (= 1 goal every 2.4 games), Healy has notched 29 in 56 for a much inferior team (= 1 goal every 1.9 games).

At that rate, I wonder how many he'd score for a truly crap team like ROI?

[youngirish]

I happen to think Scotland have been consistently better than ROI over the last couple of years not because I'm "biased", but because of their respective results over that period.

As for what I say about ROI or NI - well, people can make up their own minds.

As for what you say about ROI or NI, here's a sampler from February:

"You [Ealing Green] are so biased you no longer inhabit reality as far as football is concerned. Sweden the end of March will give you a reality check if Liechenstein don't manage to do it beforehand"

In case you've forgotten:
Liechtenstein 1 v 4 NI
NI 2 v 1 Sweden

David Healy scored 5 goals in those two games, to take his tally to 9 goals in 6 Euro2008 matches - the highest scorer in the Tournament to date.

As for Healy and Henry, obviously there's no comparison between the two as players - as evidenced by Barcelona paying £18 million for Henry just now. It is interesting, however, that whilst Henry has scored 39 goals in 92 matches for France (= 1 goal every 2.4 games), Healy has notched 29 in 56 for a much inferior team (= 1 goal every 1.9 games).

At that rate, I wonder how many he'd score for a truly crap team like ROI?

Who cares about his International scoring record? His goal record for Northern Ireland is good precisely because they are sh*t and not in spite of it. Everything creative they do ends with him on the end of it (you'd hardly be expecting Lafferty would get you a goal, doesn't McCann a young ROI midfielder have a better scoring record than him at Burnley yet isn't even near our squad?).
Your comparisions to Henry are totally irrelevant comparing a player who has spent his whole career in the lower divisions (never particularly over impressing at any time I may add) against the best striker in the world. It makes a nonense of your own argument to even compare their International records and adds weight to mine.

As for us being crap I don't think we are geat but I'm confident we'd hammer you with or without Stan. Let's be honest Wales a year or so ago hammered you at home after all didn't they though you forget to mention such things. Also Iceland beat you 3-0 fairly recently at home didn't they? Btw I've noticed you aren't half as cocky now than you were a couple of months ago when the North were (amazingly) sitting at the top of their group. You'll be less so after the away trips to Spain and Sweden.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Oh Christ ...nap time must be over

Your comparisions to Henry are totally irrelevant .

Please don't make me go back and find the place where you, yes You, yes YOU -brought up Henry ...not EG.

Btw I've noticed you aren't half as cocky now than you were a couple of months ago when the North were (amazingly) sitting at the top of their group. You'll be less so after the away trips to Spain and Sweden.

Made a few cocky predictions yourself before NI's last couple of games. How'd that go for you?

But sure keep saying they'll lose ...by the same logic that says even a stopped clock is right twice a day you'll call it sooner or later.

[youngirish]

Oh Christ ...nap time must be over

Please don't make me go back and find the place where you, yes You, yes YOU -brought up Henry ...not EG.



Made a few cocky predictions yourself before NI's last couple of games. How'd that go for you?

But sure keep saying they'll lose ...by the same logic that says even a stopped clock is right twice a day you'll call it sooner or later.

You trying to be clever again and failing miserably as usual? I was joking when I said that Healy could be compared to Henry but sure enough EalingGreen attempted to do just that. Go back and read the post again you appear to have forgotten the jist of it pretty quickly as you do with most facts relating to football as you only seem able to remember the last 2-3 results of teams when making estimations of how good they actually are. If you're looking for something to slag on these boards try the remark that Garry O'Connor would get into the Ireland team ahead of Doyle or Keane. Have you ever watched Garry O'Connor play football or do you just like to come on these boards and make silly, ill informed statements? No need to answer that.

I made a couple of predictions one of which was that Sweden would beat NI which was incorrect but hardly cocky and that NI would be brought crashing back down to reality soon enough which considering qualifying was still ongoing when I last checked and the last few results haven't been too kind to them (aren't they now third while they were first in their group when I made the prediction) hasn't been proven wrong yet and won't be either. Stick to the music.

[EalingGreen]

Who cares about his International scoring record? His goal record for Northern Ireland is good precisely because they are sh*t and not in spite of it. Everything creative they do ends with him on the end of it (you'd hardly be expecting Lafferty would get you a goal, doesn't McCann a young ROI midfielder have a better scoring record than him at Burnley yet isn't even near our squad?).
Your comparisions to Henry are totally irrelevant comparing a player who has spent his whole career in the lower divisions (never particularly over impressing at any time I may add) against the best striker in the world. It makes a nonense of your own argument to even compare their International records and adds weight to mine.

As for us being crap I don't think we are geat but I'm confident we'd hammer you with or without Stan. Let's be honest Wales a year or so ago hammered you at home after all didn't they though you forget to mention such things. Also Iceland beat you 3-0 fairly recently at home didn't they? Btw I've noticed you aren't half as cocky now than you were a couple of months ago when the North were (amazingly) sitting at the top of their group. You'll be less so after the away trips to Spain and Sweden.

As Gspain has pointed out, it would appear YOU care about Healy's international record, seeing as YOU brought him into this thread, following my having the temerity merely to agree with Cymro when he posted that he thought Scotland were currently a better side than ROI.
Then again, you seem to have a problem with anyone who disagrees with your opinions, especially one from "the North".

As for the comparison between Healy and Henry, again it was YOU who brough Henry into the thread. But whilst we're on that subject, I shall repeat for the nth. time that Henry is an incomparably better player than Healy will ever even know. However, since this is the "International" section of the Board, and the Thread dealing with "World Rankings", I think it fair to respond to YOUR citing and comparison of the two by pointing out that Healy's International record for a poor team is quite simply better than Henry's International record in an outstanding team.

Then again, I don't suppose you will allow the facts to get in the way of your prejudices now, since you don't ever appear to have done so before.

But when it comes to your prejudices, thank you for predicting that NI will get beaten by Spain and Sweden. I fully expect that to happen, too; however, seeing as your past predictions for NI have been so consistently fcuked up (in our favour, that is), perhaps your Our Wee Country's Lucky Mascot?

And as for our being top of the group, well, in common with the bulk of my fellow fans, I know to keep that in perspective. You see, when the Draw was made, my own target was to finish fourth in the Group - i.e. behind Spain, Sweden and Denmark (all Top20 ranked teams), but ahead of the rest which, seeing as we were seeded Sixth (of seven) in our Group would have represented solid progress.

Now, after a very promising start, I am hoping (though not demanding) that we finish Third, which would be an excellent achievement (imo). In truth, I can't really see us finishing Second, even though it is still just about feasible, but whilst there's still a chance, I'll still be praying for that miracle. We will not finish top of the Group, nor were we EVER going to.

And in any case, looking to the longer term, if as a result of these qualifiers, we can increase our Seeding from 6th to 4th (as seems likely), then this will have been a tremendously worthwhile campaign - even before the glories of beating Spain and Sweden etc.

Will your campaign (i.e. ROI) have been as enjoyable? I'd be surprised if it turns out that way, even if I'd be pleased for you if it did.

Anyhow, to bring this subject right back on-topic, my prediction is that come the end of the Euro Qualifiers in November, NI will still be above the ROI in the FIFA Rankings (with Scotland above the pair of us).

Care to disagree?

P.S. Even if you can't/won't recognise it, some others may appreciate the effect of "Killyleagh Kryptonite" on our normally mild-mannered hero, SuperHealy:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/eur...roup=2635.html
(I can't post the direct links, but if you click on the "Video" link to the right of the individual match results for NI v Spain, Ni v Latvia, Liechtenstein v NI and NI v Sweden, you'll see what happens after the wee man slips into a phone box and emerges in his Green and White Superhero costume...)