QuoteIt's more because of the mad electorate we use, rather than the system.Originally Posted by mypost
Because of the mad voting system we use, no.
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It's more because of the mad electorate we use, rather than the system.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Like it.
Can you blame the electorate when they put them as 17th preference, yet they still hold this much influence?
Personally, I feel anything below 16th preference should insinuate that perhaps they're not the desired party in Government. Maybe that's just me..
Only in Ireland..we should throttle the guy who invented coalition politics once and for all.
Last edited by dfx-; 12/06/2007 at 11:34 AM.
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
Or a party that loses 75% of it's seats, and it's party leader. Is that a party that should tell us what to do?
you really don't seem to understand a lot of what you're saying, at least the way it comes across.Or a party that loses 75% of it's seats, and it's party leader. Is that a party that should tell us what to do?
if a party loses 6 seats, that does not make the remaining ones any less the choice of their constituencies. if you're so against coalitions, you realise any kind of blockade on them would put fianna fail in an unassailable lead?
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
Yes, because you don't have to give everyone a preference. One of the great misrepresentations of the system imo - if you don't want a particular person elected, then give them no preference rather than a low one!
The electorate choose to decide on local candidates rather than national issues and legislature or even policy. This leads to a fragmented Dáil and therefore coalitions. Dáil elections are like a big county council election, and that is the fault of the people not the system.
No, but then they voted for FF, which was always going to mean that. If people wanted change, they had the option. I think you two are just guilty of buying into the FF propaganda "that it was all the nasty wasty PD's and we're really a centre left party". The PD's or any junior coalition partner only have that influence because the main party agrees with the policy.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I'd rank a party voted with a 16th preference as being more deserving of Government than some cute hoor muck savage in a flat cap from the ar se of nowhere that I couldn't vote for, getting a chunk of my tax money to do as he pleases.
If a party loses 75% of it's seats, then that's clearly a message from the electorate to them:
"We don't want you in government".
you're against EU farmer subsidies then?
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
No, its not.
Its a clear message from the consituencies that they lost, that they'd prefer someone else. Its a clear message from the constituencies they did win a seat in, that they would like them in goverment. and on a national scale, by voting for fianna fail you are at least voting for the possibility of putting the PDs back in power - and more people voted fianna fail/pd than any other party. THAT is a clear message. ce sera. if you want an either/or election, wait for the presidential one.
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
As it happens yes, but mostly against the practice of independents with no national policy interests being bought of by pork barrel-type political agreements in the interests of forming a Government.you're against EU farmer subsidies then?
Who pray tell are you talking about exactly dfx? Is it the Greens? Is it the single transferable vote system itself you don't like or that some party you dislike is benefiting from it?
Are you as uncomfortable about Cyprian Brady getting a first preference vote that a candidate from the Natural Law Party, Republican Sinn Fein, Immigration Control Platform, Christian Solidarity or the Monster Raving Loony Party wouldn't be bragging about? I find it odious -but heh it's the system ...and that FF will sh1t on their own to get him in is their business.
What Gav said. Plus -they're a small party. Only about 15,000 less people voted 1st pref for them this time than in 2002 -that's about a 20% drop in their 1st pref vote. That it lost them 6 seats tells you only how tight the margins are for smaller partys.Or a party that loses 75% of it's seats, and it's party leader. Is that a party that should tell us what to do?
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Apparently Boyle just came out of Government Buildings and said they've agreed a deal.
When does my free folding bike arrive?
I think he's been misquoted.
City definetly have the best bands playing at half-time.
O'Bama - "Eerah yeah, I'd say we can alright!"
G.O'Mahoney Trapattoni'll sort ém out!!
I read it on Twitter, it has to be true. But of course it isn't.
Well done IrishElection.com.http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfeyqlkfgb/
Dan Boyle has denied earlier media reports that a deal has been done between Fianna Fáil and the Green Party of the formation of a government.
Seems like a matter of time now. Does anyone know what Dan Boyle's background is? I'm instantly suspicious of anyone with an American twinge to their accent and an opinion on economics. I checked out his website, and beneath a banner depicting some inspirationally bleak bogland, his diary has him down for a January meeting with "Irish Suctioneers and Valuers." I'm glad I'm not a suctioneer.
A leading authority on League of Ireland football since 2003. You're probably wrong.
I don't mind whether FF or FG are left, right, centre or off centre. I want a simple Government - FF or otherwise - that is reflected by a strong desire in the polls and no low preference votes. As you say, the electorate refuse to do this and ends up in a fragmented Dáil and results in fudged together Governments between opposites. It is a farcical situation.
Granted the electorate shouldn't give low preferences, but the next failsafe against that - the system - then allows for low preferences to count for far more than they should.
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
It is the system and the electorate as outlined by Macy I don't like. FF and the Greens are opposites trying to fudge together a Government.
I want us to vote in a simple Government that doesn't take weeks to bargain and buy off opposites like FF and the Greens. I don't care if that Government is of parties that I didn't vote for. If Republican Sinn Fein poll strongly or the Monster Raving Loony Party ever do very well, then fine, let them into Government. However if any one party get poor preferences, they shouldn't be let anywhere near Government. It should be simple - let the most desired party rule...but our system allows for lesser desired parties to rule too...
I do not like the influence garnered by low preference votes whether they be the Greens or not.
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
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